54 versus 58?

[JerryToth]

I'm planning a Transitional rifle as my next project.

It seems like the suppliers offer the rifle stocks preinlet for the heavier "D" profile swamped barrels. These barrels can be had in 50, 54, 58, or 62 caliber. Originally I was thinking about a 54 caliber, but since the "D" profiles are heavier barrels, now I'm wondering whether a 58 caliber barrel might be a better choice, since as the hole gets larger, the barrel gets slightly lighter?

While I wouldn't mind lightening the rifle some, I'm not real tough recoil-wise either, so I'm concerned whether 58 caliber recoil might be a problem?

I'm wondering whether a 58 would be accurate with lighter 70 or 80 FFg charges?

Looking for any and all advise here...

Thanks in advance,

Ironsights-Jerry.

 

[musketman]

Why not have a .54 barrel rebored for a .56 caliber?

Then you would have the average of both calibers...

Track of the Wolf sells .550 round balls for the .56 caliber...

BALL-550-X
.550'' round balls,
pure lead,
hand cast,
per 50 $7.50

 

For me the question is 58, 60 or 62cal.

 

[Stumpkiller]

With a faster twist, like 1:60, there's no reason a .58 woldn't be as accurate as a .54 (or .50) with a light charge of 70 gr. (Now there's something you don't hear much: 1:60 being a fast twist & 70 gr. being a light charge!!)

You're probably talking about a half-a-pound difference in weight for a 42" barrel of .58 vs. .54 (if I am ciphering my math correctly - a 42" tube of 38 gauge+/- steel (.02"@ 0.875lb/ft2) 42" long, equivalent to a flat stock piece 1.822" x 42" x .02"), so it isn't insignificant.

Remember the economy of a .54 vs. a .58 A .58 uses 24% more lead per ball (a .58 is MUCH bigger than it would seem for just .04 difference in diameter). It also burns more powder to get moving to a similar trajectory, but hits harder when it arrives.

Offset the economies with: big bores are cool. I once was demonstrating my .66" fusil to a friend and the first shot centered a 6" dia. white pine behind the target box and split the tree about 10" off the ground. The 20' tree laid over behind the target, completely severed from it's roots with one shot. His response: "GAWD!" They are just a ball to shoot. (but a .66 tosses 56% more lead than a .58 and 93%(!) more than a .54).

Personally, I think the .54 is the best all-around rifle caliber for small game up to whitetail size. But that's for my wants and needs. Yours may vary (I'm not sure a .58 would be a servicable squirrel harvester - "Here's a piece of tail". "I found a foot!")

 

[roundball]

If this is any help, I recently bought a .58cal Green Mountain 1:70" barrel, and have tried 40 shots each of 80, 90, and 100grns Goex FFg with Hornady .570 balls...tack driver with all loads and I didn't notice any difference in recoil from my .54...will leave it zeroed with 100grn load for deer hunting this fall

 

[Zonie]

Ironsights: If you were buying a 1 inch ocoagon straight 42 inch long barrel, I wouldn't hesitate to say get the .58. I have one in .54 and it is Heavy. (6.94 lbs).

However you are talking about a D weight swamped barrel which is 37 inches long.
My Transitional has this barrel in .54 caliber and it seems like a feather when compared with the 1 inch straight octagon. It only weighs 5.2 pounds (in .54 caliber) because the swamping takes a LOT of weight out of it.
This is the same weight as a .36 cal in a 42 inch long 13/16 octagon!

My choice would be to get the .54. The balls are more commonly available, it will burn a little less powder and it won't thump your shoulder quite as hard as the .58.

 

[Birddog6]

I have owned & built several of them in all 3 calibers. If economy is a concern, go with the .54 for sure as it is much cheaper to shoot as the balls in .54 are cheaper by the hundred. Also the .54 is a flatter shooting rifle of the 3.
When you go to a .58 caliber, the recoil is not much more with normal loads, it is not quite as flat shooting as the .54, but the balls are 50 per box & just ? 2 bucks cheaper than a box of 100 .54's. So cost wise the 58 is more expensive to shoot tho you are normally shooting close to the same charge. The .58 is a very accurate rifle also in the 31 & 37" D barrels as well.
When you jump to the .62 cal you take a Big jump in the ball price. Not as flat as shooting as either of the others, but man it makes one heck of a impact & the energy stays all right there at the impact. Still a wonderful caliber out to 100 yards. Recoil is not much more than the .58 under normal loads.

Normal loads to me are all under 100 grains in all 3 calibers. In my .54's I shoot 75 grains of FF, in the 58 I shoot 85 grains of ff & 85 grains in the 62 cal also.

If this is a rifle to shoot allot, I would suggest the .54 . If moderate shooting the .58 & if for ? deer hunting & several times a year then the 62 would be fine.

Also if you cast your own balls the ball cost is not as relevent and considerably cheaper. The the mass produced balls such as the 45, 50, & 54 aren sold in greater volumes & are cheaper to produce because of that & volumes cheaper to ship..

If you are considering a Jaeger or Marshall rifle, recoil in all of them will be minimum as of the design of the rifle, balance of the rifle, & style of buttplate they all use. My .54 cal Jaeger has less recoil with the 75 grains in it than the .54 cal. GPR has with the same load.

Should it is a Jaeger or Marshall you are going to build & if you are unfamiliar with them & I can be of any assistance with it, please feel free to email me & I would be most happy to help in any way I can.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Knives

 

What would the max charge be for a "D" profile in .58 ::

 

[Wayne Combs]

I'm wanting to build a early Va.style rifle and it seems that the earlier rifles were of a larger caliber. I've read someplace where the early gunsmiths didn't so much build a rifle to caliber,but to how many balls you could get out of a pound of lead.I guess what I'm trying to say is if a feller were trying to portray an earlier time period he would want to go with a larger caliber.Wayne.

 

I'm wanting to build a early Va.style rifle and it seems that the earlier rifles were of a larger caliber. I've read someplace where the early gunsmiths didn't so much build a rifle to caliber,but to how many balls you could get out of a pound of lead.I guess what I'm trying to say is if a feller were trying to portray an earlier time period he would want to go with a larger caliber.Wayne.

No, because he would know that as time passed he would need the bore of his rifle re-done/re-bored. It was common pratice to find a smith and enlarge the bore to the next available caliber after several years use. Truth.

Birddog explained it best.

The .54 is a sweet round, versital and easy too learn. The .58? That's an odd round, and best suited to an expierianced shooter. The only advantage is a bigger hole when cutting paper,,as far as hunting and game,?, there is nothing the .54 cain't do.
If your re-coil sensitive (as many of us are)..,go for the added weight and versitility of the .54.imho tacks

 

I have one of birddog6's .58's in a Jeager. Dandy rifle and quite accurate. I haven't had the chance to shoot it a lot, but the recoil with 100 grains if gee-whiz isn't at all bad. But then I'm not recoil sensitive due to brain damage caused by shooting way too much powder behind really big and heavy conicals. :: Yes balls are a good bit more expensive for the .58. The .54 will kill anything on this side of the planet.
If I could only have one caliber it would be the .54. But big bores are way cool!
The .58 might be a bit much for small game, though I know a guy that loads down with his .54 and shoots squirrels with it.
The .58 will be lighter in weight and you don't have to shoot big charges. For whitetail I'd think 75 grains would take the biggest buck in the woods.

 

My 54 barrel has become a dust collector since the 1-70' 58-cal arrived. Recoil feels less than the shorter 54 barrel using the same powder charge. This particular barrel shoots roundballs, Maxis, Minies & Ballets right in the kill zone.

Also...This 58 Renegade has become my favorite ML in a big hurry. I prefer to use it this upcoming deer season more than my T/C Omega at "ANY" distance in the woods.... that's a huge compliment. I like it so much that I bought another Renegade to fit with a 45-cal barrel. Pretty soon, dust may start forming on my T/C Omega.. even though it's beautiful with it's lamination & stainless combination... forgot to mention that the Omega a tack driver out to 175 yards (furthest I've shot).

Will the Renegade be effective out to 175 yards.... I doubt it BUT I won't say "Never-Ever" until I test it this fall. Big bullets that fly in a slower-speed arch will kill the same 140lb whitetail as a small bullet that fly on a more level, faster plane. That's the only meat I hunt these days. Had I been staring at a tougher skinned elk at 175 yards, I'd be gettin' & grabbin' a copper poly-tipped sabot/bullet & blowin' the dust off the Omega in a New York Split-Second Heart Beat ....lol

 

[JerryToth]

Forgive my ignorance, and it's probably been asked a thousand times already, but...

What do a 54, 58, and 62 caliber roundball weigh?

I'm thinking that I shot 320 grain and 370 grain Maxiballs over 80 and 90 grains of Goex FFg out of my T/C's for years before I got into the more traditional side of the sport. Although the 370's were stout, they weren't unmanageable for hunting scenarios.

Would 58 roundball recoil be similar to the Maxi's?

Jerry.

 

[musketman]

Here you go, there are rough weights, a .490 and a .495 will vari slightly in weight, but it's a ball park figure...

.36 (.360) caliber 71 grains
.40 (.395) caliber 92 grains
.44 (,437) caliber 127 grains
.45 (.445) caliber 133 grains
.50 (.495) caliber 180 grains
.54 (.535) caliber 220 grains
.58 (.562) caliber 260 grains
.60 (.600) caliber 325 grains
.62 (.610) caliber 340 grains
.69 (.678) caliber 480 grains
.75 (.735) caliber 545 grains

 

[roundball]

I've settled on 100grns of Goex FFg and a .570 / 279grn Hornady ball for my hunting[url] load...made[/url] three trips to the range with it so far and shot 40 shots per trip.

Recoil didn't seem any different than 50cal maxi-hunter loads or 54cal RB loads...they're all a pleasure to shoot

 

[cayugad]

I do not feel the recoil of a .58 caliber is bad at all. If you were shooting 320 & 370 grain conicals, I do not see the recoil bothering you at all.

I took my .58 caliber out today and shot 20+ rounds off. I use 95 grains of Goex FFg. Besides being a very easy shooting rifle with 95 grains, it is very accuarate also.

I have no doubt in the power a charge and projectile like this would have. I think this would take anything I care to hunt and then some. I am going to give it a try on elk and hogs next year...

 

[tg]

.54 thru .62 would all be normal cals for early rifles 1750-1770 and as stated the style of these guns helps reduce the recoil, I have a .62 early smoothrifle with swamped 42" barrel and it is very mild to shoot with 90 gr 3f. .54 is a good all round choice unless you may take on some of the largest game in the country and even then if close enough it would do the job.