54 vs. 58

[pronghorn]

I am currently looking for my first flintlock. I love the Tennessee rifles as well as the late Lancasters. I was originally looking for a .58 for elk hunting, but just located a new TVM late Lancaster in .54.

What is the weight difference between a .54 and .58 round ball. Would the .58 be a "that much" better on elk size game?

 

[Ron LaClair]

I've got a .54 and a .62. I always thought I wanted a .58...don't know why :youcrazy:

Don't sell the .54 short :nono: that caliber has accounted for a lot of elk.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Beartooth bullets has a fine calculator for RB. There is about 60 gr difference between the .54 and .58 balls. The .58 will hit harder, but the .54 is thought of as the optimum caliber for weight and trajectory.
[url] http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/roundball.htm?v1=.530&v2=2753.5781[/url]

I wouldnt hesitate to use my .53 for elk out to 80 yards or so, given a good clean shot opportunity.

Bill

 

[roundball]

I am currently looking for my first flintlock.

Odds are you'll want to shoot your first Flinter a lot...and unless you are independently wealthy or cast your own .58cal balls, the cost of Hornady or Speer .58cal balls is twice as expensive as .54cal balls...so the .54cl would be more ecnomical to shoot a lot...on the other hand if you're only going to go to the range once every few weeks or so, the price difference won't be enough to worry about.

What is the weight difference between a .54 and .58 round ball.
[/quote

.530 = 230grns
.570 = 279grns

Would the .58 be a "that much" better on elk size game?

If I had a choice, I would use a .58cal on Elk, if for no other reason than the shot presented may have more distance than a typical whitetail shot in Estern woodlots, and the heavier ball will carry more energy further.

I'm fortunate to have both a .54 and .58cal Flinters...the .54cal is great and I lke it, but if I had to sell one, I'd sell the .54cal and keep the .58cal...a real powerhouse at distance and extremely accurate with a Hornady or Speer .570/279grn ball

 

[Ron LaClair]

I'm fortunate to have both a .54 and .58cal Flinters...the .54cal is great and I lke it, but if I had to sell one, I'd sell the .54cal and keep the .58cal...a real powerhouse at distance and extremely accurate with a Hornady or Speer .570/279grn ball

STOP IT!!!.... :yakyak: I really don't need a .58.....but I really want one :haha:

 

[roundball]

I'm fortunate to have both a .54 and .58cal Flinters...the .54cal is great and I lke it, but if I had to sell one, I'd sell the .54cal and keep the .58cal...a real powerhouse at distance and extremely accurate with a Hornady or Speer .570/279grn ball

STOP IT!!!.... :yakyak: I really don't need a .58.....but I really want one :haha:

I'll have you know both of those calibers were purchased with extremely sound logic...I got a .54 because I "needed" it...and got the .58 for my 58th birthday!
:rotf:

 

[Hoyt]

I would get the TVM .54cal...then when you find a .58 you like..get it.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, the .54 is an optimum deer caliber that can be used for elk. But, the .58 is an optimum elk caliber that can be used on deer. :hmm:

I also use a .54 on rabbit and squirrel.

 

I got a .54 because I "needed" it...and got the .58 for my 58th birthday!
and on your 60th birthday a .60 cal, or are ya gonna wait til 62. :rotf: :blah: :rotf: Bill

 

[roundball]

I got a .54 because I "needed" it...and got the .58 for my 58th birthday!
and on your 60th birthday a .60 cal, or are ya gonna wait til 62. :rotf: :blah: :rotf: Bill

Well, I just turned 60 but couldn't find one...and I already have a .62cal...guess I can't get anymore any time soon!
:rotf:

 

[roundball]

Well, the .54 is an optimum deer caliber that can be used for elk.
But, the .58 is an optimum elk caliber that can be used on deer.

Now THAT is a profound way of thinking about it!
:thumbsup:

 

[Rebel]

Yea, your next one will have to be a Bess, but i don't think T/C makes one of them yet. :grin: Just kiddin'. :thumbsup:

 

[ffffg]

stance, type of hold, holding pressure, all make a difference reducing accuracy becouse of shooter error in the big bores with big loads of black and long barrel time.. but the elk is a big target balancing this problem.. as the ball gets bigger the power escilates rapidly, and is a completely different ball game at 100 yards.. the faster a ball goes the faster it slows down.. the fast 50s with lots of velocity will never meet toes with the .58/.62 that starts much slower and looses less velocity..(the 54 is obvously between these) i dont lknow but it looks like when you go over the speed of sound the velecity drop is quite a bit faster especially with a round ball.. elk are tough and a big one is BIG. if like an archer and your going to accurately put it thru the lungs youll be fine,,. this reduces range somewhat and oportunities of quartering shots.. the big bore it presents more oportunities.. a big bore with lots of powder will break an elks shoulder within a reasonable distance.. my criteria for big game caliber is that it should break the shoulder in event of a poor shot.. the 58 will obvoisly do a better job of that.. for your balistic program you can plug in this,, my .62 with 125 grains 2f goex shoots a 340 grain round ball at 1500 fps well.. thebest part about the .62 is after ive had it for just under a year i really love the two ball sizes that are readily availble in lyman moulds.. .600 and .610. the .610 loads hardd and needs a wooden mallet to start, and the .600 loads very easily and idont even need to wipe... but the.610 is alot more accurate and i need to wipe.. .. dave

forgot to mention figure your power at 100 yards, this will tellyou the real story about the different calibers and elk.. my .62 is more than adequate for elk at 100yards.. dave..

 

[ffffg]

here are my balistics on .54 and .62 cal round ball.. the recoil, trajectory, and energy would be close to correct, but the thornally stopping power would be subject to changing power from modern bullets to round ball and are also subject to the researchers idea of what power would be correct for elk... ithink the researchers like me take into account possibilitys of a less than perfect hit, charging dangerous game, etc, etc..

,62 at 1500 fps with 125 2fg.. (my load.) 100 yards vel 1032 fps, 807 muzzel energy with a 341 round ball.. sighted in at 90 yards its 2 inches high at 60yards and 3 inches low at 110 yards aprox. at 1032 fps it has a relative stopping power of 120` at 100yards which thornily says is adequit for black bear, elk,moose, kudu, zebra, .. recoil is a little more than 25 foot pounds with recoil velocity of 14 fps.. my gun doesnt kick anything like a 30-06. i guess this shows that these data are just data. but heres more..
a 30-06 with 2700 fps muzzel has 2500fps at 100 yards, energy is the 06 has huge energy becouse the modern balistics gives alot of wieght to veloctiy.. ithink it deals with hydrostatic shock.. but i dont know. `180 grain bullet gives a thrnally stopping power of 101, recoil of 24 foot pounds with a velocity of 14 fps.. this is in the ideal power of black bear. of course we know thousands of elkhave been shot with a 30-06.

54 cal 225 grn ball at 1900 fps muzzel, energy at 100 is 689 with 140 grains ffg, (1175 fps at 100 yards a 700fps loss.)i dont know the amount of grains of powder it wiill take to achive 1900fps. themore powder will give more recoil.. velocity at 100 yards is 689. you can start to see the problem with bigger animals and smaller balls.. it has 689 foot pounds of energy with the 224 grain bullet, sighted in at 120 yards its 3 inches high at 70 yards and 3 inches low at 140 yards.. its thornally power at 100 yards is 81 which is rated between black bear and deer.. of course many elk have been shot with the .54. recoil in a 8 3/4 pound gun is 27foot pound with a velocity of 14fps.. notice the more powder and faster velocity gives as much recoil in the same weight gun and quite a bit less power at 100 yards.. note the trajectory is good tho, but recoil is more than the more powerfull .62..

the 58 275 grain bullet at 1900 fps has a thornally power of 107 at 100yards,with 1214 fps, engergy of 901, recoil of 42 foot pounds and 18 gps.. with 165 grains of powder....who knows how much powder it will take to get a .58 to 1900fps tho.. i just put 1900 into the balistics to see for myself when i was anylizing the 58 power to see what i would ahve to do to aproxomate thornally of the 62 with the 58.. i went over this data twice but they should be done on your own to verify all the balistics as i can make mistakes and do so often.. this is a rough guide anyway just to show how ball size really changes terminal power factors... if your a good hunter and a good shot, and have lots of elk in your neighborhood none of this will matter much... i just built my getz .62 barreled chambers mark silver rifle and it weighs in at 9 pounds and i got my first flintlock deer with it this year.. so i havnt shot an elk with a black powder yet but i should be ready next year.. all i have it say is big bores forever!!! dave.

 

[pronghorn]

Thanks gentleman for all the good information. What a great resorce for those of us who are a little green.

 

[BS]

I got a .54 because I "needed" it...and got the .58 for my 58th birthday!
and on your 60th birthday a .60 cal, or are ya gonna wait til 62. :rotf: :blah: :rotf: Bill

I guess then, I must have a reverse Mortgage! :winking:

Cause I started with a .875 cal. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: