58 cal conical or minnie

[Fallon Kid]

As a start, I admit I’m stupid and should have been put down a long time ago. I recently bought a custom flinter 58 cal. Finding a round ball mold (.570) is like looking for a unicorn and all you can find is a ******* with a toilet plunger. Needless, I bought a lee Minnie ball mold (bullet on right) and a mold reputed to be copy a 1800’s Minnie. I cast a few today and they all dropped about .572 -.574. I put bullet in barrel and seems way too much rattle. I did not feel any contact with rifling. Does not seem smart to shoot a bullet with that much rattle. Is paper patching OK? Thanks

 

[Phil Coffins]

First set is what is twist rate of your barrel?

 

[OkieDougie]

That was the appeal and beauty of the Minie bullet. Undersized at loading. Once fired the pressure expands the skirt to engage the rifling. It, along with the Pritchet bullet were game changers.

 

[Fallon Kid]

First set is what is twist rate of your barrel?

the guy that made the gun thinks is was 1/60

 

[TreeMan]

I just ordered a .570 mold from these guys this week. This will be my second mold from them. Yes they are in England but my last one arrived at my door in about ten days from when I ordered it. They are one of the best mold makers in the business.
https://www.ballmoulds.com/

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Ideally your Minie should be sized 0.002" smaller than the lands measurement. Lodgewood sells Minie sizers if you need one.

 

[Grenadier1758]

As @Flint62Smoothie says, your Minie' ball should be 0.002" to 0.001"nsmaller in diameter than the land-to-land measurement of your barrel. You want a Minie' ball to be just undersized enough to be easy to load and large enough for the skirts of the hollow base to expand into the rifling. Minie' balls should not rattle. Paper patching may help to get the bullet diameter up to bore size.

Of course, there are other considerations. What is the depth off the groove? Gas cutting from escaping gas during firing is not good for accuracy.

Why are you looking for a Minie' ball or conical bullet rather than a round ball? This is especially true in a barrel with a 1 in 60 twist that is designed for optimal performance with a round ball load.

I am somewhat surprised that your custom builder did not send the rifle out with a recommended ball size, patch thickness, patch lubricant and powder charge.

The round ball molds from Jeff Tanner (Ballmoulds.com) are good molds. You do need to order handles separately and a diagonal cutters will be needed to remove the sprue. Measure your land-to-land bore diameter and order a ball mould that is 0.010" smaller in diameter.

Do tell us that you have real black powder (Schuetzen or Swiss) on hand to fire your flint lock rifle and some extra flints.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

What Flint62Smoothie said! .572-.574 seems small to me for any .58cal, but like he said you need to measure. What lead you use will also change the finished bullets diameter. Pure lead will throw a larger diameter than lead alloyed with tin or antimony. It's best, but not required, to use pure lead with Minies. Without knowing what your barrel measures, no one can tell you what size bullet you need.

 

[bang]

Always measure bore first. Learned that hard way myself. One rifle I have to use sized .575. others a sized .578. so buying both molds turned out ok for me. I make sizers from 3/8 plate and fine touch it with a micro reamer. The closer to bore size without being hard to load the better. Ones I use take light thumb pressure to start.
Pour the lead hot. I run my pot around 850. Pure lead only. Pure lead will fill out better at higher temp.

 

[hanshi]

Jeff Tanner is definitely the guy to go to for molds of unusual size. Round ball is probably your best bet for shooting, though. You can use a patch thick enough to get good accuracy from a ball that's a little smaller than normal.

Soft, unalloyed lead is what you want for minies. Lead alloy may not be soft enough to expand the skirt on a minie. Here is where I must disagree with Old Hawkeye. A soft lead ball or minie will shrink a tiny bit when cast. But a ball cast from lead alloy will cast a few thousandths LARGER rather than the other way around. The alloy bullet will be slightly lighter in weight due to the tin/antimony.

 

[Fallon Kid]

Thanks one and all. I know the best folks in the world attend these pages. I have read and digested each reply and am grateful for the info. Powder: I have powder for years ahead. I spent all that free money on powder and primers. Twist: The gun was made about 10 years ago and sat in safe until I bought. I found out how to measure twist last night and will perform test today. BULLET: I prefer round ball but content to use Minnie. I cast hollow base (.360) for my Navy 36’s and sometimes use a No-No. Works good and don’t have to destroy gun by relining barrel. I will look at getting mold from overseas. I’m pretty sure I need a .570. I am not hung up on precise accuracy but just to make smoke, a boom and have bullet fly in general direction. For precise shooting, I bought a PH Whitworth last year. I spend a good bit of time trying to tighten a group just a few inches at 200m. A buffalo at 800m is about a 5 out of 10. Goal is 10 4 10 and completely doable. Again thanks. Jerry

 

[Fallon Kid]

Just got post fm hanshi. I use pure lead. And I do cook a bit hot 825. Also I do blend 20-1 and 16bhn for other loads not discussed here. I was advised when using front loaders and C and Ball. pure lead. Thanks

 

[Timber Wolf]

T.O.W has balls ready to go in both .570 & .575. Kinda pricey but so are molds. Might try some pre-cast and narrow down a preferred size before throwing coin at a mold. Balls & shot for muzzle loading guns - Track of the Wolf. I have a .575 Lee mold, and cast a bunch of .562 from a borrowed mold once upon a time. As I told a buddy the other day, I have balls too small, and too big. I need to try a thicker patch with the .562 balls, but the ,575 do load alright and shoot good with a .010 patch. Barrel is a 1/70 (I think) Green Mountain on a Renegade.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thanks one and all. I know the best folks in the world attend these pages. I have read and digested each reply and am grateful for the info. Powder: I have powder for years ahead. I spent all that free money on powder and primers. Twist: The gun was made about 10 years ago and sat in safe until I bought. I found out how to measure twist last night and will perform test today. BULLET: I prefer round ball but content to use Minnie. I cast hollow base (.360) for my Navy 36’s and sometimes use a No-No. Works good and don’t have to destroy gun by relining barrel. I will look at getting mold from overseas. I’m pretty sure I need a .570. I am not hung up on precise accuracy but just to make smoke, a boom and have bullet fly in general direction. For precise shooting, I bought a PH Whitworth last year. I spend a good bit of time trying to tighten a group just a few inches at 200m. A buffalo at 800m is about a 5 out of 10. Goal is 10 4 10 and completely doable. Again thanks. Jerry

I think the 0.570" ball and a decently thick patch of 0.018" will do just fine. I'm leery of your hollow base 0.360 for you Navy 36 since the chamber diameter is likely to be about 0.375". So, unless you are using the pistol as a single shot or there are some other dimensions that are not being told.

 

[Fallon Kid]

I think the 0.570" ball and a decently thick patch of 0.018" will do just fine. I'm leery of your hollow base 0.360 for you Navy 36 since the chamber diameter is likely to be about 0.375". So, unless you are using the pistol as a single shot or there are some other dimensions that are not being told.

Thanks for getting back. The Navy 36 might be a little off topic but what I'm referring to is bullet obturation. I got a multi cav mold hollow base WC made just for this purpose. A .360 bullet will just slide down barrel and leave slight visible rifling marks. With powder behind it it does fill out nicely. I'm just a tad worried with my 58 cal flintlock as the HB bullets I cast yesterday don't really seem to have any barrel friction.
I may have to leave shooting alone for a while as I just discovered my 29 model A appears to have a timing gear failure. I dread the hours needed to fix. Oh well. Life is fast balls and curve balls.

 

[TreeMan]

If you don’t have any success with your minies let me know and when I make some .570s with my new Tanner mold, I’ll send you some to try out.

 

[nkbj]

Years ago a fellow on the forum was trying Lee mold minies and found they were undersized for his piece. So he stuck a layer of tissue paper around the lubed minies to take up the slack and they worked well for him.
Maybe there might be a way to innovate your minies into useful service.

 

[Fallon Kid]

If you don’t have any success with your minies let me know and when I make some .570s with my new Tanner mold, I’ll send you some to try out.

Thanks nkbj. As luck would have it, today I found a lee round ball dbl cav .575 at precision reloading. Good price but shipping seemed a bit high, but what's new. thank you for your kindness.