.58 Rebore

[nkbj]

Got a flinter Renegade rebored to .58 bore and a 60" twist with 11/1000 deep grooves. Is there any style of conical that would work in that configuration?

 

[Dane]

NO!! You have a slow twist, round ball barrel. In a.58, you shouldn't need a conical unless you're hunting monster grizzlies.

 

[roundball]

I have no idea...but if I was going to try one, I'd probably start with the Hornady 525grn Great Plains bullet.

Its design has a bit of a hollow base that "could" lead one to speculate it might flare an eyelash to help but I personally don't believe it does.

IMO, that's a lot of groove depth to block gas from escaping without a patch but all this is pure speculation, no science...the only way you'll really know what your bored out barrel will do is to buy a box and go to the range

 

[BrownBear]

Among the "solid base" conicals, a shorter one like the LEE 440 grain REAL might work fairly well if you drive it fast enough. At least for 50 yard or so shooting. Unfortunately, as it slows down it's likely to run wild, making it problematic for longer shots. Or at least that's been my experience with my 1:70 twist 58 cal Hawken. That might be fairly universal because I've had the same experience with the shortest REALs in the 1:66 twist barrels of Lyman GPRs in 50 and 54 cal. The longer REALs in both 50 and 54 cal were hopeless.

The 58 cal REAL is generally very accurate in the 1:48 at any range, but groups spread from 2-3" at 50 yards to around 10-15" at 100 in the 1:70, but only when pushed to max. At lower vels it's all over the place in the 1:70.

However, hollow based minies should work just fine. In fact they were used in their day in slower twists than yours. My pick of the litter is the 478 grain LEE. With it's wide meplat (flat nose) it should be a game stomper based on my experience with large meplats in cartridge guns, but I haven't gotten around to trying it on game to confirm. But it's very accurate in both my 1:48 and 1:70 barrels.

 

[rich pierce]

It's really not ideal for a bullet anymore and your accuracy may fall off compared to round ball. To get a flatter trajectory you're really going to punish your shoulder.

 

[BrownBear]

To get a flatter trajectory you're really going to punish your shoulder.

And dat's da trute! Holy cow. :shocked2:

There's a reason all those long range guns were 45 caliber rather than 50, or especially 54 and 58. Lots more SD from a much lighter bullet. And a lot less powder needed to get the vel up a bit.

 

[tg]

As mentioned you pretty much made a round ball gun
which is really all one needs top hunt any North American game in the .58 bore, the modern conicals have always been something to provide a link between the traditional PRB hunting and the modern hunting with conical bullet ballistics, as few of the conicals offered now are comparable to the originals.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Without being too nosey, may I ask how much the rebore cost and who did it for you?

1:60" is pretty slow twist for a conical. R.E.A.L. may work for you (I never cared much for them). I'm not sure what conicals are available on .58 There are some good hunting designs for shooting in the various CW replicas. The Lyman 315 gr HB Minie might do well - it's squat for a conical.

 

[BrownBear]

On the subject of "reboring" I had a revelation last week. I don't know if you can find someone to rebore a 15/16" barrel to 58 caliber since barrel makers appear to have lawyered up and made the 1" minimum for 58 cal. But I'd sure try to find one.

I just picked up an older Investarms 58 cal Hawken with a 15/16" x 29" 58 cal barrel. It handles considerably different and balances better for my tastes than my Lyman GPR 54 cal or my 58 cal TC Big Boar, which is essentially a single-trigger Renegade. The Investarms also balances much better for me than my Renegade with its 1" x 32" GM 58 cal drop-in barrel.

I'm yet to shoot it, but with its double trigger, hooked butt, patch box and great balance I'm betting the pristine bore will turn it into my #1 deer rifle. Think "TC Hawken" with a 15/16" 58 cal barrel. The opportunity to rebore a 15/16" TC Hawken to 58 caliber would gladden a lot of hearts, I think.

 

[DEWB]

Brown Bear, I almost ordered a tapered 1" to 7/8" x 36 long in .58 from Rice but after talking to them I shied away from it. They said anything over 120 grn. 2f or 100 grn. in 3f might be dangerous. Good chance I wouldn't of gone over that anyway and you probably don't need that much powder but I thought it might be pushing the edge alittle close. If you could find a .58 15/16ths barrel made out of 4140 it would probably be fine. I know a guy that shoots a .58 Zouave musket that has a thin walled barrel and he shoots something like 120 of 3f in it. Its a 4140 barrel. He has even double charged it by accident and it didn't hurt it. Just my 2 cents,Dew

 

[redwing]

You would not shoot .58 Mini balls with charges above 70 grs. The skirts can and will blow off and stick in the breech. You then must pull the breech plug to remove the lead skirt.

 

[BrownBear]

That's good know Dew, and I sincerely appreciate it. For lack of any better info I was kind of figuring on 100 grains of 2f as a max, and shying away from 3f altogether unless the gun really insisted. I have a 58 cal. Oregon barrel that's tapered from 1 1/8" to 15/16" in 26", and I've been shooting 90 grains of 3f in it. It's a nice deer load as a matter of fact.

 

[DEWB]

Redwing,My freinds Zouave has a roundball twist. Thats all he ever shoots out of it. Its made by Zoli and its also a carbine. He uses it for elk since its so handy and light,but it kicks like a mule. Sounds like a cannon going off when he shoots it with that big charge he puts in it.

 

[BrownBear]

Sounds like a cannon going off when he shoots it with that big charge he puts in it.

:rotf:

Oh man, I can just hear it with a big charge!

I have a 26" 58 cal barrel on a TC Hawken, and even with only 90 grains of 3f that thing really barks.

Not bad on the shoulder by any means, but it's so loud my pards have named it "Dang!" You can be a long ways off and hear a bunch of guys shooting, and you know every time I set it off. Bang, bang, bang, BOOM, bang, bang, bang. :grin:

 

[tg]

In a .58 I have never found the need to use more than 80gr 3f, even for Elk if one is shooting at sensable ranges I do not see the loads over 100 gr are needed, once you reach the point the ball goes thru or stops on the far side more powder is not much help, placement is the key not a faster moving ball, you are not looking to hit that magic velocity that causes the projectile to mushroom apart and cause massive damage, it is a different game with the PRB or even period comicals, getting closer and placing the shot very well will accomplish much more IMHO, I know several Elk/Deer hunters who tried some various comicals and went back to the PRB these are long time ML hunters not novices.

 

[DEWB]

TG, My freind has been hunting elk along time and has killed many elk using round balls. Thats all he shoots. I agree that is a stiff load but he said that is what it took to get that barrel to shoot. He's probably been shooting black powder longer than Iv'e been alive and I'm 43. Even won a state championship once. No offense to you but he knows what he's doing. Dew

 

[tg]

No offense taken, he may have a custom barrel which requires the heavy loads, this is not really uncommon, I do know that there is a trend to use heavy loads to overpower game when not needed in many cases, I have no doubt that your friend is not one of these, give him my best and wish him luck o future hunts and the same for you.

 

[DEWB]

TG, I think you are right about using to much powder sometimes. Rice told me that anything over 100 grns. is a waste and just blows the extra powder out the barrel. Another guy I know said if you put a white sheet out in front of the muzzle about 20 ft. or so any extra powder your barrel doesn't burn will land there and you can scoop it up and prime your rifle with it. I havn't tried it yet but I would like to. On the other hand Iv'e heard other guys that are using a chronograph say the velocity will keep going up the more powder you put in the barrel,so you'd think if the velocity went up it power would be burning. I don't know which is right,maybe both are to some extent. I do know that may .58 De Haas barrel with 120 grn. 2f is capable of hole touching groups at 100 yrds. I would like to try the sheet test and a chronograph on it and see if I can learn something. The twist probably has something to do with how much it will burn in whatever lenth of barrel. Good Cheer, Sorry if this tread went off in left field somewhere. Sometimes these things go off track alittle. Dew

 

[tg]

I suspect that much of the "extra powder" on a sheet or snow would be fouling residue/burnt powder but it would be interesting to see.

 

[nkbj]

Sounds like a cannon going off when he shoots it with that big charge he puts in it.

:rotf:

Oh man, I can just hear it with a big charge!

I have a 26" 58 cal barrel on a TC Hawken, and even with only 90 grains of 3f that thing really barks.

Not bad on the shoulder by any means, but it's so loud my pards have named it "Dang!" You can be a long ways off and hear a bunch of guys shooting, and you know every time I set it off. Bang, bang, bang, BOOM, bang, bang, bang. :grin:

Yep, this being a rebored Renegade it's a shorty. Been using 70 grains of FFFg with .575RB to see how the lapping is coming along and she bounces a bit even at that. One thing that is already apparent is the quick handling characteristics of the piece. This is nice!