60 grs FFFg for Deer

[KHickam]

I have a dilemma. I have a very tight bored 50 cal rifle (49 cal actually .495 bore) and I shoot a very accurate load 60 gr FFFg, .480 rb and .15 patch - I shot at a 25 yd NMLRA rifle target offhand today at 25 yds and shot 49XXXX. The target frame is a oak pallet and the ball shot through two 1" boards. I tried shooting 90 gr FFFg with the same ball/patch and although accurate it shot 1" high and the group opened up quite a bit.

Do you think the 60 gr load will be sufficient on TX white tails out to about 75 yds?

 

[poordevil]

Maybe having it shoot 1" high at a longer range is a good thing. if it does not open the group up too much the 90gr would be what I would want. If you have to use 60gr 75 yards might just be the limit.

P

 

[Emet Huntsman]

Absolutely! Good hunting.

 

[Zonie]

I believe there are some choices between 60 and 90 grains of powder that will give better velocity than the 60 grain load and better accuracy than the 90 grain load.

Try shooting a 5 shot group using 70, 75, 80 and 85 grains of powder. Use the most accurate powder load for your hunting.

I'm betting that 75 grains will be almost as accurate as the 60 grain load and it will raise the power up into the "no doubt about it" area out to 100 yards.

 

[Dphar]

I have a dilemma. I have a very tight bored 50 cal rifle (49 cal actually .495 bore) and I shoot a very accurate load 60 gr FFFg, .480 rb and .15 patch - I shot at a 25 yd NMLRA rifle target offhand today at 25 yds and shot 49XXXX. The target frame is a oak pallet and the ball shot through two 1" boards. I tried shooting 90 gr FFFg with the same ball/patch and although accurate it shot 1" high and the group opened up quite a bit.

Do you think the 60 gr load will be sufficient on TX white tails out to about 75 yds?

A 480 rb in a 495 bore with a .015 patch is not very tight.
I shoot .495s from a GM 50 with a .018 patch.
90 grains was an excellent load for a rifle I had many years ago with a Douglas barrel.
60 grains will work OK but 90 with give a longer point blank range.
The rifle SHOULD shoot high at 25. If not you will be low at 75 or 100.
Hunting is not target shooting and for hunting a 50 caliber rifle making 1800 fps or more should be sighted dead on at about 110 yards. This will allow a dead on hold for deer to 120 or perhaps a little more. No hold over no hold under just dead center and the deer is dead.

Dan

 

[the Black Spot]

i know a person who has harvested many deer with a 50 grain load of 3f in .50 cal

 

[Leon/Iowa]

A lot of people just think more is better. I have taken over a dozen deer with a 60 gr load and a patched RB. All but one ball passed through the deer. BUT, all my shots were 60 yards or less. Shot placement is what counts most. Leon

 

[RJR]

Those puppy dog sized deer you have down in Texas don't need the monster sized loads. 60 grs. of FFFg is plenty to 75 yds, just make sure of your shot placement like any other shot.

 

[bob308]

if you can shoot and it sounds like you can. that load will do just fine.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I have a good friend that has taken six deer with a .54 flintlock longrifle loaded with 60 grains 3F. The shots were between 45 and 100 yards and he never recovered a ball. 60 grains works.

 

[wattlebuster]

You do your job the ball pushed by 60 grns will do its

 

[ohio ramrod]

More isn't always better! 60 grain FFF is equal to approximately 66 grainn FF. With a fifty caliber you have plenty of energy out to 100 yrds for deer. I am one of those who believes accuracy is more important than max energy.You want to put a hole in the heart, not blow out a shoulder blade! :hmm:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

60 grain FFF is equal to approximately 66 grainn FF.

You may find it's equal to something more like 75-80gr of FFg. When I got started in the early '70s, the common wisdom was to increase the charge by "up to 1/3", not by 10%, when going from 3F to 2F to get the same velocity (equivalent to decreasing the charge by up to 1/4 going from 2F to 3F). Getting the same point of impact is a separate matter - muzzle whip and barrel rise have more involved than just muzzle velocity. When I looked at the Lyman and Gun Digest loading manuals (and other sources), where they compare loads with different granulations of powder by the same manufacturer fired in the same gun, I found the charge increase required to get the same velocity (usually had to interpolate a bit, given 10 grain increments often listed) when going from 3F to 2F varied from 15% to 55%. Caliber, projectile, barrel length, etc. certainly cause differences, and the charge increases varied somewhat by the pressure/velocity involved in a given barrel, but by far the majority of the charge increases ranged from 1/4-1/3 (25%-33%). This is equivalent to reducing the charge by 1/5-1/4 (20%-25%) when going from 2F to 3F. When pressures were given, they were always higher with the 3F, and often significantly so, but none that I noticed were excessive with reasonable loads.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Snow on the Roof]

I have a dilemma. I have a very tight bored 50 cal rifle (49 cal actually .495 bore) and I shoot a very accurate load 60 gr FFFg, .480 rb and .15 patch - I shot at a 25 yd NMLRA rifle target offhand today at 25 yds and shot 49XXXX. The target frame is a oak pallet and the ball shot through two 1" boards. I tried shooting 90 gr FFFg with the same ball/patch and although accurate it shot 1" high and the group opened up quite a bit.

Do you think the 60 gr load will be sufficient on TX white tails out to about 75 yds?

A 480 rb in a 495 bore with a .015 patch is not very tight.
I shoot .495s from a GM 50 with a .018 patch.
90 grains was an excellent load for a rifle I had many years ago with a Douglas barrel.
60 grains will work OK but 90 with give a longer point blank range.
The rifle SHOULD shoot high at 25. If not you will be low at 75 or 100.
Hunting is not target shooting and for hunting a 50 caliber rifle making 1800 fps or more should be sighted dead on at about 110 yards. This will allow a dead on hold for deer to 120 or perhaps a little more. No hold over no hold under just dead center and the deer is dead.

Dan

I respect Dan's opinion a lot. For those "Uber" deer they have in Wyoming and Montana coupled with the ranges one typically finds out west I would heed Mr Phariss'advice, 90 grains +. Here in the midwest of the 40 or so deer I've killed in the last 30 years only four where taken past 50 yards. Sixty grains combined with a .490 RB is more than adequete at our abreviated ranges. Thirty or more years ago I thought these midwestern whitetails required 110 grains or more but a few dead deer and a lot of gray hairs lead me to believe that today's deer just are'nt as tough as their ancestors :haha: !

Snow

 

[smo]

It sounds like you have found the right combination! 49xxxx That's some great shooting. :hatsoff: :hatsoff: I did not see mentioned what type of rifle you were shooting or the barrel lenght? I have taken several deer here in the South with 65 grn loads.I shoot mostly T/C's in 50 cal. I have found if i start to go up to heavier loads the rifles don't shoot as well.I'm not saying they won't shoot good enough to kill a deer with a heavy load, but they are not as accurate it seems. As Ohio Ramrod said... You don't want to blow out the shoulder,all you need to do is put a hole in them to let the air out of em'. :wink: IMHO,for what it's worth,at ranges less than 75 yds. i don't think you will have any problems with stopping a deer with 60 grns of fffg in a 50 cal. with a well placed shot. :thumbsup:

 

[KHickam]

The rifle is crafted by B. Christian - it is a 50 cal (actually a .49 since the bore measures .495) EV with a sliding wood patchbox, it has an L&R Queen Anne lock, with a colerain swamped barrel.

I practice offhand shooting mostly with it - since I seldom have been able to take a rest with a rifle when hunting (guess I am not as skilled as some that can do that regularly).

Very seldom do I shoot at regular targets with scoring rings - my targets are tree branches, knots in trees, oyster shells little gourds that grow all around TX floating on water or stuck on a tree limb, metal gongs and silhouette targets.

But, once in a while I do shoot at scored targets - sometimes I shoot well, other times not worth a tinkers dam.

Dan'l

 

[gearheart]

Those puppy dog sized deer you have down in Texas don't need the monster sized loads. 60 grs. of FFFg is plenty to 75 yds, just make sure of your shot placement like any other shot.

Yeah I've seen them. They no bigger than a yearling fawn up here in the north country. 60 grain is plenty medicine for them. :thumbsup:

 

[KHickam]

I have a dilemma. I have a very tight bored 50 cal rifle (49 cal actually .495 bore) and I shoot a very accurate load 60 gr FFFg, .480 rb and .15 patch - I shot at a 25 yd NMLRA rifle target offhand today at 25 yds and shot 49XXXX. The target frame is a oak pallet and the ball shot through two 1" boards. I tried shooting 90 gr FFFg with the same ball/patch and although accurate it shot 1" high and the group opened up quite a bit.

Do you think the 60 gr load will be sufficient on TX white tails out to about 75 yds?

A 480 rb in a 495 bore with a .015 patch is not very tight.
I shoot .495s from a GM 50 with a .018 patch.
90 grains was an excellent load for a rifle I had many years ago with a Douglas barrel.
60 grains will work OK but 90 with give a longer point blank range.
The rifle SHOULD shoot high at 25. If not you will be low at 75 or 100.
Hunting is not target shooting and for hunting a 50 caliber rifle making 1800 fps or more should be sighted dead on at about 110 yards. This will allow a dead on hold for deer to 120 or perhaps a little more. No hold over no hold under just dead center and the deer is dead.

Dan

Not tight huh, well perhaps - that is a load I can readily load - if you go to .490 ball with the a thinner patch - you need a good rap with a short starter and I have broken a few wooden rods trying to push that load down after about 10 shots - if you go to a .495 RB, you need to use a bare ball and bring your steel range rod and a mallet - you are going to need it.

Guess I must be whimpy. :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

I have a dilemma. I have a very tight bored 50 cal rifle (49 cal actually .495 bore) and I shoot a very accurate load 60 gr FFFg, .480 rb and .15 patch - I shot at a 25 yd NMLRA rifle target offhand today at 25 yds and shot 49XXXX. The target frame is a oak pallet and the ball shot through two 1" boards. I tried shooting 90 gr FFFg with the same ball/patch and although accurate it shot 1" high and the group opened up quite a bit.

Do you think the 60 gr load will be sufficient on TX white tails out to about 75 yds?

A 480 rb in a 495 bore with a .015 patch is not very tight.
I shoot .495s from a GM 50 with a .018 patch.
90 grains was an excellent load for a rifle I had many years ago with a Douglas barrel.
60 grains will work OK but 90 with give a longer point blank range.
The rifle SHOULD shoot high at 25. If not you will be low at 75 or 100.
Hunting is not target shooting and for hunting a 50 caliber rifle making 1800 fps or more should be sighted dead on at about 110 yards. This will allow a dead on hold for deer to 120 or perhaps a little more. No hold over no hold under just dead center and the deer is dead.

Dan

Not tight huh, well perhaps - that is a load I can readily load - if you go to .490 ball with the a thinner patch - you need a good rap with a short starter and I have broken a few wooden rods trying to push that load down after about 10 shots - if you go to a .495 RB, you need to use a bare ball and bring your steel range rod and a mallet - you are going to need it.

Guess I must be whimpy. :hatsoff:

No, its not a case of being wimpy...but for what its worth something doesn't seem right about all this...you've gotten solid commonly proven advice from a few different folks on the PRB combo that you say won't work...you say you can thumb start your combo...yet then say a mere .005" tighter combo breaks ramrods, and you need steel rods, mallets, etc, and I'm sorry but that does not compute.

Tight PRBs do require a good palm smack at the muzzle to initially compress/flatten the excess folds of material...but then once in past the muzzle they slide down a clean bore easily, with a firm smooth push on the range rod (or ramrod).
The type and amount of lube is VERY important for ease of loading...and lube, as well as humidity...is very important for eliminating fouling buildup which can create loading difficulties.

For example, my weekend range sessions are normally 40-50 shots without wiping between any shots at all using a wet type lube such a Hoppes BP PLUS...or NL1000 lube on a high humidity day.
But if I try to use NL1000 by itself on a dry, low humidity day in the winter around here, I might have to stop and clean after only 8-10 shots as the fouling gets bad enough to inhibit reloading...or I might break a ramrod trying.

The common theme to the experience that folks are trying to share to help you is that a .010" under bore size ball in a rifled bore with a well lubed .018" pillow ticking patch, will start fine with a short starter, and then seat right on down in a clean bore just fine.
Its not theory, its fact...speaking only for myself I've personally done that about 12,000+ times in .40/.45/.50/.54/.58/.62 caliber rifles using T/C, GM, Rice barrels...28"/32"/38"/42" barrel lengths...shallow grooves, deep grooves, square bottom grooves, round bottom grooves...year round weather conditions of temperature and humidity, etc.

So you can see our difficulty in trying to diagnose the circumstances based upon what you're describing to us...

:wink:

 

[Trench]

This deer fell to a .490 ball in front of 60gr of FFg at 40 yards. Complete pass-thru.