62 cal. Coleran turkey choke barrels

[dbutch]

Found my happy load for the turkey season.
this barrel is 1" Oct 37" length and sits on a T/C Renegade flint .Have a 34" barrel both shoot the same pattern.

25 yards..... the black corner lines are 8.5 X 11 inches.

paper target used

load 75 gr. FFF-Goex
2 thin white overshot cards
2 wool Oxyoke wool(yellow wads-lubed (Stumpy's moose snot)
1 1"x3.5" .020 pillow ticking wad patch--lubed
Hoppe's black powder and solvent lube..moist
95 volume #5 Nickel plated lead shot..From Ballistic products
1 thin white over shot card

used the ram rod to form the lubed patch into the bore the patch clung to the barrel walls forming a cup
drove the shot column down with a Hoppe's lube patch.

This kept the fowling soft and the patterns intact.The Moose snot lubed wads also kept this gun firing. No swabbing between shots
This evening I shot 20 times and the load column went down smooth from start to finish.
Captain Fred and I have been working on loads for these barrels this is what we found to work!

Thank You Captain Fred!...

the pink wad was used as a shot measure only!

 

[shootemup]

I'd say you're ready to go. :thumbsup:

:hatsoff:
Spot

 

[dbutch]

I'd say you're ready to go. :thumbsup:

:hatsoff:
Spot

Spot .I felt the need for a rear sight with this pattern...I had been testing from the bench..after I found the happy load I started shooting from my normal hunting position..which is sitting on a flat 4 leg stool about 5" off the ground...Had to do sight adjustments to compensate..Very glad I did.

 

[roundball]

Good work there...

And just for something else to think about...if you setting 25yds as your range, you can also substitute #6s...I still had strong penetration through heavy tuna cans with a more dense pattern than the #5s. (in fact, the #6s penetrated tuna cans out to 40 yards).

I never had a chance to test penetration of the #7s I used on that Tom Saturday, but at 25 yards he went down for the count right there.

In any case, good luck with the turkeys!

 

[dbutch]

Good work there...

And just for something else to think about...if you setting 25yds as your range, you can also substitute #6s...I still had strong penetration through heavy tuna cans with a more dense pattern than the #5s. (in fact, the #6s penetrated tuna cans out to 40 yards).

I never had a chance to test penetration of the #7s I used on that Tom Saturday, but at 25 yards he went down for the count right there.

In any case, good luck with the turkeys!

RB-were you using #6 Nickel plated for that penetration test?

I will use the load to 30-35 yards..30 yards being my comfort zone.

there were an average 6 to7 pellet holes in the spine and head at 30 yards.

My tag kicks in on the 28 th..we have 5 day hunting periods ..stating today Wed-Sun. till the end of may--need to apply..after the draw you can buy left over tags one per day...till they are sold....the later periods are a more challenging hunt..less birds more cover..Tom's hened up..Birds educated.... mosquitoes the size of buzzards all flying in attack formation.

Thanks for the info....Dan

 

[roundball]

No, the 6's were just Lawrence brand magnum (hard) #6s.

When I decided to try the #7's this year because of the fairly open "I.C. Plus" choked barrel I was thinking about using, I went with Nickel Plated because they're slightly lighter than #6s and the NP is advertised as giving better penetration than lead, allegedly slipping through feathers better, etc, so I saw that as perhaps a bit of an offsetting benefit to being a tad lighter...no personal knowledge.

Personally, I feel using #5s is adding an unnecessary handicap in terms of reduced pellet count / thinner patterns...the energy from unplated magnum #6s definitely worked out to 40yds and 30yds as that's where I dropped a couple birds two seasons ago with the Full choke barrel I had back then.

 

[Capt. Fred]

That's an awesome pattern Dan. And it was a team effort on coming up with the ideas. :hatsoff:

I'm new to the fowler/smoothbore game and I was stunned how quickly the fowling destroyed my pattern out of the Colerain TC barrel. First couple of shots were gorgeous and then it started down hill fast.

The lubed cloth "shot cup" is a big help and I think the ticking is really the cat's meow. It's tough enough to survive the trip down the barrel in good shape.

Now all I need is a turkey like Roundball's beauty he got opening day to stumble in front of me!

 

[dbutch]

Here's some samples of the recovered wad-patch cup

the darker patches were lubed with the Moose Snot--the lighter ones lube with the Hoppe's

The Hoppe's lubed patches held up great!

The Moose Snot lubed patches were found further down range and opened up the pattern some.

as I increased the shot load I used longer patches

 

[roundball]

Dan, is one of the reasons for the OS cards under the Oxyoke wads to keep them from slipping / hold them up near the muzzle while inserting the cloth wrap and pouring in the shot?



I've had the thought for my cylinder bore .28ga, of using two 1/2" or 5/8" wide strips of 3"x5" card material, placed across the muzzle in a "PLUS" shape then pushing them down in gently, pour in the shot, etc.

After I figure out the correct strip length for the particular shot charge, thought I'd dip a bunch of strips in melted Natural Lube 1000...hope to experiment this summer like you've been doing.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Roundball, I can't help on the os card question but here is what Dan and I have figured out and tested regarding the strips. We've tried squares, x's, crosses and I tried another geometric shape that I couldn't even describe. No matter though. For a 20 ga the single 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch wide strip of ticking works best. It forms a beautiful little cup with just a bit of overlap but very little bunching. I think your cardboard idea will work too if the stock is flexible enough to conform to the bore. For a 28 ga you'll want a slightly narrower strip, maybe 3/4 to 1 inch wide.

The length of the strip determines the amount of shot it will hold. I use a 3 1/4 inch long strip for 70 grain volume of #5's and a 3 1/2 inch long strip for 90. I think if you make the strip too long it may bunch up in front of the shot and cause slugging.

I discovered this weekend that I could start the strip into the barrel with my finger till it forms the cup. Then seat the EMPTY "cup" all the way down onto the wads over the powder by using the little end of my ramrod. ( I've got one with a mushroom end on one end of the fowler ram rod)

Then you can pour the shot down the barrel and it all ends up in the cup. I was affraid that the cup would collapse down there but in fact I can't even get it to collapse on purpose! I tried collapsing it with both ends of the ramrod to make it easier to pull out with a worm and it will not collapse.

I was using Balistol on the strip and I think it sticks the strip to the bore. The shot pours in just fine. Then I cover it all with two overshot cards.

 

[dbutch]

Roundball..the 2 overshot cards do 2 things seal the powder to keep the lubed Oxyoke wads from fouling it and does help to hold the shot column up..I would recommend the pillow ticking -moist in Hoppe's lube..it just clings to the inside of the bore..plus it softens the fowling on the way down.plus it keeps the patch intact.
This was a first for me using a cloth wad cup--very surprised how well it worked...this barrel shoots this load column great without the patch...but the leading of the barrel was the issue...the patch has dropped the leading way down. Had to soak the bore with Hoppe's #9 after using the non-patched loads..think its more the nature of the beast--.620 bore reduced to .580 at muzzle.This barrel starts at the breach at .620 about 4.5" from the muzzle it starts to tapper to .580 and there is an inch of straight .580 bore at the muzzle.
Hope this answers your questions..on my next range sessions I will chrono these loads...Dan

another thought..Ken pushed his patch all the way down before pouring shot..I preferred to keep the column high while loading.once I seated the last overshot card I used a well lubed patch on the rod and seated the column on the powder..killed 2 birds with one stone..I liked to be able to see the shot fill the cloth wad-cup.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Dan, did you have any trouble seating it when full?

The times I tried that, I had a real hard time pushing it down. I did not put the cards on top of it though, so I suspect what was happening was that as I pushed it down it was trying to expand.

I'll try it with the cards above the shot. I agree that seeing that it is correctly filled, up close and personal is mo' better. :thumbsup:

 

[dbutch]

Dan, did you have any trouble seating it when full?

The times I tried that, I had a real hard time pushing it down. I did not put the cards on top of it though, so I suspect what was happening was that as I pushed it down it was trying to expand.

I'll try it with the cards above the shot. I agree that seeing that it is correctly filled, up close and personal is mo' better. :thumbsup:

Ken..There is some resistance on the start ..but with the OxYoke wads-lubing and the patch above lubing it went down smooth.
I bounce the gun some after I pour the shot to settle it then add the last 20 pellets of shot.

 

[roundball]

I agree that seeing that it is correctly filled, up close and personal is mo' better.

That's been my experience too...several years ago I experimented with making 'paper shot cups' and quickly learned if I seated an empty cup all the way down first, the pressure of the ramrod down on the bottom of the empty paper cup, caused all the sides to tilt inward some...then when I'd pour shot, enough shot would get between the bore walls and the outside of the paper to cause inconsistency...then I'd seat the OS card and it would further crush those tilted paper walls in and I'd get the occasional slug effect or por patterns...so I started loading up at the muzzle.

Finally got aggravated with all the fiddling around with paper cups and my inability to ever seem to completely 100% eliminate the occasional 'slug' effect so I had my turkey barrel Jug Choked.
Simple and quick to load everything into a bare bore and the results are fantastic...just too hard to get a Tom into the sights and in range as it is and I didn't want to risk the 'slug' effect at the wrong time...one of the best hunting decisions I've made.

To be honest, with that turkey barrel you have, if you'll try the hard sixes, or copper or nickel plated 6s, I think you'll find a killer pattern all the way out to 40yds without all the fuss with any kind of shot cup or wrap. I always used this guys load recommendation with a minor mod:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

80grns Goex 3F
2 Oxyoke 1/8" prelubed wool wads
1+5/8oz magnum 6s
OS card

 

[paulvallandigham]

In addition to ending the leading of your bore, are you also finding that you have more pellets in your patterns, than when you shoot "bare" shot????

Does the thickness of the fabric affect the size of the pattern you get?

Thanks. Paul

 

[dbutch]

Roundball-I can apperciate your point on the #6's

I too had some slugging issues with the paper wads-enough to shy me away.

my preferance would be hevi-shot 6's but with this choke it's not happening.no way to get the protective wad down to seal-and the 28 ga. wads are not protective enough.

I found the Nickel plated 5's to pattern the best in my barrels....The reason I started to hunt with black powder was the challange-got tired of busting birds out to 50 plus yards..with CF sipository guns...I needed to bring the fun back to the hunt.so in my mind it's "call them in close and hit them hard". feel the same way about waterfowl...so far the black powder hunts have been more than rewarding!..Glad we share the same ideals!

Try the cloth wad cups you will be surprised!

 

[Capt. Fred]

Paul, I deffinitely am getting slightly better patterns with the cloth cup when comparing the first shot out of a clean barrel. Especially when compared to how the pattern opens up after a few shots with no leading protection. It may be a quirk to this particular barrel with the choke on the end of it.

Out of a real clean barrel I was shooting a 12 to 14 inch diameter very dense pattern (at 25 yds)with the cloth cup and it stayed pretty consistent even after 10 shots or so. With no "cup", the pattern was maybe 20 inches or so on the first shot and it opens up a little even on the second shot. Then it continually gets worse and worse. I was amazed how quickly the powder residue and leading messed up the pattern. Oh, BTW I am swabbing between shots just like I do with my rifle.

Again, my experience with fowlers is limited to just this one barrel so this may be a quirk to the super tight choke of this set up.

When it comes time for duck season I may not bother fiddling with the fabric cup. I generaly hunt thick stuff with pretty close wing shooting so I'm going to want a bit bigger patterns.

 

[dbutch]

---------When it comes time for duck season I may not bother fiddling with the fabric cup. I generaly hunt thick stuff with pretty close wing shooting so I'm going to want a bit bigger patterns.----------[/quote]

Ken..are you planning on using this barrel to waterfowl hunt? Are you thinking Nice-shot? Can't think of any other non-toxic shot that would work in this barrel.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Yup, thinking about Nice Shot. I figue if I don't eat breakfast and lunch for two or three months I can save up enough for a few days of hunting the duckies. :thumbsup:

 

[Capt. Fred]

One other thing Paul, I just realized I didn't answer your question about fabric thickness. Yes the thickness did make a difference. I think because the thinner cotton patching I was first trying was wearing through in spots on the way down the barrel, and thus some lead was getting scraped off of the pellets and onto the barrel walls. The ticking is in tact when it exits. I think that is a big reason why the patterns stay so consistent using the ticking.

Roundball, thanks for the link. Interesting article. I'm going to try some experimenting with FFF too and see what it does.