.69 vs .75 out of a military musket - any difference in accuracy?

[Joemolf]

Well well well - this is exactly my question. Is that anecdotal or based on any data?
I am very interested.

Mike Bellevue’s YouTube channel has videos on both muskets. I wish I had his time and range. I n my observation which he points out increasing the charge in both the Brown Bess and Charleville provided a significant increase in accuracy over the standard military load at the time. Also the two brothers Bang Bang shoot lights out with there Charlesville made in India smoke poles and I believe they are using a good size load. So I think from those two channels 120 grains over 100. Makes significant gains in accuracy or doing your own load development

 

[Joemolf]

Mike Bellevue’s YouTube channel has videos on both muskets. I wish I had his time and range. I n my observation which he points out increasing the charge in both the Brown Bess and Charleville provided a significant increase in accuracy over the standard military load at the time. Also the two brothers Bang Bang shoot lights out with there Charlesville made in India smoke poles and I believe they are using a good size load. So I think from those two channels 120 grains over 100. Makes significant gains in accuracy or doing your own load development

Also that gent Ben Hoffman Productions seems to get his Brown Bess’s on target using 75 grains of 3F not sure what size ball he or other’s are using. The Bang Bang brothers shoot there 1766 extremely well who would think there made in India Charleville would shoot so well and it’s a nice looking replicas as well. After watching there videos I’d buy one. They are fun to watch the Bang Bang Brothers Ethan has the Charleville

 

[Joemolf]

Also that gent Ben Hoffman Productions seems to get his Brown Bess’s on target using 75 grains of 3F not sure what size ball he or other’s are using. The Bang Bang brothers shoot there 1766 extremely well who would think there made in India Charleville would shoot so well and it’s a nice looking replicas as well. After watching there videos I’d buy one. They are fun to watch the Bang Bang Brothers Ethan has the Charleville

They are not match grade guns but pretty good for the guy just playing

 

[Artificer]

My accuracy load in my old Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine was 70 grains of FFg with a thick patched .735 ball.

At 25 yards when shooting offhand at the front blade of a double bladed axe stuck in a section of log with a clay pigeon hung on each side, as long as I didn't mess the shot up - it was a sure bet the ball would split in two on the axe blade and each piece shatter the clay pigeon on each side. When doing that kind of shooting, you have a LITTLE bit of up and down you can be off from a dead center shot, but almost NO amount being off from of side to side from dead center.

I was fortunate to have an older shooter who shot his Charleville musket in those competitions and was a better shot than I was in those years. (If you want to become a better shot, competing with someone better than you is an excellent way to do it.) He got me involved in shooting offhand at 100 yards and the targets were 1 gallon plastic milk jugs filled with water. He almost could hit that gallon milk jug from the offhand 10 out of 10 times. I got to the point I could do it 9 out of 10 times pretty consistently and again we were shooting Offhand and not from a bench or any kind of rest. I don't believe his Charleville was that much more accurate than my Brown Bess Carbine as much as he was a better Offhand Shot.

We used to delight in setting up different targets at different ranges when we shot the Northwest Trade Gun Aggregate match with those muskets. One of the nicest Offhand shots I personally made was at a 4" long Steel Buffalo Silhouette Target (normally used for shooting with .22 rim fire rifles) put on the ground at 73 yards - a distance no one ever practiced at. My ball hit about 1 inch to the side of the Buffalo and 4 inches short, in part because I wasn't sure about how to hold off for elevation at that range. Even my Mentor's shot was off more than that on that day.

So I very much agree with LD you have to find the most accurate load for a musket, just like a rifle, before you think about glass bedding one. Polishing the internal part of the lock plate and internal lock parts is a good idea as long as you don't get carried away with it and reduce the tolerance of the parts to a sloppy fit.

I had begun doing trigger jobs on UnCivil War guns when I still owned that Bess and shot in competition, but I never did do a trigger job on mine and I regret that. I just didn't realize what I had learned on large Percussion Military locks transferred right across to Flintlock Military locks. Wow, it would have been easier to shoot that Bess well with a good trigger job!

Gus

 

[Joemolf]

Great Info! I have a Pendersoli Brown Bess and Charleville. I enjoy shooting them both. They could both use trigger lightening but by God the Brown Bess definitely. The difference between both is significant and apparently so planned. I wonder if they are consistent between the same models. That split clay shooting is a great idea. I recently watched a YouTube video where the author would squirrel hunt in the same fashion hit the ground or tree stump and the shrapnel would finish the squirrel. I never had squirrel I think it’s about time I try some.

 

[tenngun]

Your first question is actually how accurate are you trying to be? Are you planning on world level competition?
Whether you are or not, you will need to learn to load the Bess for accuracy first, before adding the "bells and whistles". Then look at polishing some of the surfaces of the lock or a full lock "tune up". She's not a rifle by any means.
If you cannot get a very accurate load, then all that extra time and expense of glass bedding and tuning will give you a Bess that could shoot better, but doesn't yet.

And really if you are that interested, you need to get an after-market stock that corrects the stock angle to your shoulder. Otherwise, (imho) anything after that is moot....



Glass bedding will do a lot of things that it does not do in a modern rifle. In your musket it will reinforce the stock, and if the pins are properly relieved, it reduces the stock shrink and expansion so removes the stress on the barrel tenons. It will add weight to the musket, which some people like when shooting "unsupported".

On the other hand, while glass bedding the barrel you might just glue the barrel into the stock by accident. Don't ask me how I know about that....

LD

Ha ha, I bet I know exactly how you learned that, as I know how I learned it

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The only other "advantage" that you get from a Bess..., if you're shooting that .735 ball vs a chap with a .58 smoothbore musket..., that bigger hole might just "cut the line" between the 9 ring and the 10 ring when the fellow with the .575 ball that hit in the same place, might not... not sure if the difference is that much between a .735 ball and a .680, that anybody would care.

LD

 

[Artificer]

Great Info! I have a Pendersoli Brown Bess and Charleville. I enjoy shooting them both. They could both use trigger lightening but by God the Brown Bess definitely. The difference between both is significant and apparently so planned. I wonder if they are consistent between the same models. That split clay shooting is a great idea. I recently watched a YouTube video where the author would squirrel hunt in the same fashion hit the ground or tree stump and the shrapnel would finish the squirrel. I never had squirrel I think it’s about time I try some.

I've only done one or two trigger jobs on repro Charlevilles and those were the older Navy Arms models, so I can't really speculate on how much they vary by maker. I just know they and all the Original M1816 muskets and repro Brown Bess Muskets ALL had trigger pulls of at least 9-10 pounds if not a couple pounds heavier than that. BTW, those were weighed with NRA certified trigger pull weights, so they were not false readings one can easily get with other ways of checking trigger pull weight.

Gus

 

[Joemolf]

I have not checked but 10 pounds sounds about right; obviously I need to shoot more! 10 pounds good golly!

 

[Grenadier1758]

The only other "advantage" that you get from a Bess..., if you're shooting that .735 ball vs a chap with a .58 smoothbore musket..., that bigger hole might just "cut the line" between the 9 ring and the 10 ring when the fellow with the .575 ball that hit in the same place, might not... not sure if the difference is that much between a .735 ball and a .680, that anybody would care.

LD

Ball diameter shouldn't have any advantage as most targets are scored based on the center of the ball. Ball diameter is important when shooting steel gongs as movement of the gong or sound will count for score.