777 Question

[Greendog22250]

Has anyone else had the same results?

I was giving 777 a try in my old .54 Mountain Rifle 32" barrel with a PRB.
80 grs is the load that Hodgdon starts with. On their site they say the vel should be @ 1667.
I loaded her up and shot through my chrony. 5 shots averaged 2090 fps.
According to my old Lyman BP handbook that would take about 160 grs of FFFg.

 

[FTW]

Took me 120 grs. of 2F 777 to get that much velocity out of my 32 inch .54 GM barrel.Are you useing 2F or 3F? 70 grs. of 2F is all I been able to use without burning up the patch.

 

[Greendog22250]

I am using 2F.
The patchs are burnt some but not through.
I was thinking about backing it off some. Accuracy is still pretty good.

 

[Herb]

Sometimes chronographs give high readings. I have an Oehler 35P that has given really high readings for me on several sessions out of thousands of them, and I don't know why. Hodgdon's maximum load is 120 grains for the .54 roundball and Triple 7 2F. So if your velocities are repeatable, something is abnormal. Can you try the same patch, ball, lube and powder charge with Goex 2F, and get normal velocities?

I built a Christian Hawken Lancaster caplock with 42" barrel, and with 80 grains of T7 2F I got 1832 fps for 5 shots and 1840 for another 4. 90 grains gave 1946 fps for 5, 100 gave 2048 for 5, 110 gave 2161 fps for 5, and 120 gave 2238 for 5 and 2210 for another 4. These are much higher velocities than the Hodgdon loading manual shows, and I E-mailed this info to Chris Hodgdon, thinking maybe the pressure was excessive. He wrote back "you don't get something for nothing", meaning I guess the pressure was high. But he didn't say don't use that much powder. Of course, I only do this in rare testing.

In a Henry Albright Lancaster 42" .54 flintlock I built, I used 75 grains of T7 2F with 5 grains of Goex 2F booster on top of the charge in my measure, dumped down the barrel, and primed with 4F (or maybe 3F or 2F black, can't remember). Eight shots averaged 1736 fps with 44 fps spread. Another group of nine shots averaged 1724 fps with 44 fps spread.

I compared T7 2F with Goex 2F and Swiss 1 1/2F in a .58 Hawken flintlock fullstock I built. Do a search, go to Shooting Accessories, Re: 777 load for a .58 caliber, post by Herb, date 1/08/08, and you will see a photo with the loads, velocities and targets with my rifle.

So, do some further checking. Something is abnormal with your velocities.

 

[gordy]

Herb, I have never used other than real bp in my flinter, but was given a can of tripple-7 by a well meaning froend.How is the ignition compare to bp with the 5grs. of bp under the load and as a pan powder? Thought I might give it a try and save on my bp as its getting harder to find by the individual can or two. :hmm:

 

[Herb]

Hi, Gordy. Hodgdon has instruction on their Triple 7 "bottle": says "May be used in flintlocks with 5 grains black powder as a starter. Before adding Triple Seven main charge reduce it by 5 grains". Their loading book says to use five grains of 4F black powder, but 2F or 3F work perfectly. What I do is pour the charge of Triple 7 in my measure and then tap it to settle it 5 grains (which I mark inside the measure) and top it off with 2 or 3F black powder and dump it down the bore. You can also prime with 2 or 3F. The Triple 7 pellets have a black powder booster built into the base. Cooney of Cooney's Black Powder and Explosives in Hobbs, NM told me he sold Hodgdon the black powder for this purpose. I bought my last case of black powder from him.

The booster makes the Triple 7 work normally in flintlocks, as good as black powder. I use it only in testing but it is entirely reliable, and I would confidently use it in hunting. If you looked at my .58 flintlock photo, I think the last target had 10 shots of Triple 7. There was little velocity spread. I have never had the "crud ring" (I guess down near the breech)that some people report when using this powder.

Most people complain about it and bad mouth it, but they haven't tried it or tried it enough to make it work. Of course, not one of them ever had any trouble making up a good black powder load. I treat it like black powder, don't ever clean between shots nor groups of any kind of powder, up to maybe 50 shots (which is enough for one session for me). I clean it the same.

 

[gordy]

Herb, thanks for the information. If real bp wern't becomming hard to obtain in small affordable amounts (1 or 2 cans at a time) I would not even consider this alternative, but the truth is that in many areas this is the case. I hope to be able to purchase real bp through the local bp club (joint venture) when I get back to West Tx. this summer. Again, thanks for the information. :thumbsup: