A few cap and ball questions (Possible Shop)

[cdg]

I honestly don't know what I want at this point, as I've hardly met a firearm I don't like. I might go for a percussion rifle, or maybe another cartridge firearm (really looking at a Handi-Rifle in .500 S&W). In any case, I'm hoping to purchase another firearm within a month or so, and I was thinking I might post a few questions around here first.

I should explain that I'm looking potentially at a cap and ball revolver. Whatever I purchase must be reasonably accurate and capable of withstanding a lot of shooting, as I hope to shoot whatever I purchase quite often. It doesn't have to be a nail driver for accuracy, but I'm thinking to avoid a gun with no sights (as my Tower Pistol is right now). A fun "plinker" is all I really want.

Now recently I was searching on google and came across the Possible Shop. Of particular interest were their revolvers, claiming to be by CVA. This is the link to the ones I am interested in:
[url] http://www.possibleshop.com/kit-cap-ball.htm[/url]

I am especially interested in the 1861 Sheriff's and the 1863 Pocket models. I would prefer a smaller firearm to ease transportation. However, I have a few concerns:

1) Who makes a CVA revolver kit? These firearms look a lot like similar Piettas that I have seen and heard very bad things about. However, I know that Jukar used to make a lot of CVA stuff and they were decent. Who makes the best replica revolvers? How about the best on a budget?

2) Are Traditions revolvers any good? I've seen some pretty good deals on them at Dixie for a complete starter kit - very tempting.

3) I've heard some things about brass frames stretching a lot more and so on. Is this a really serious concern? If it helps any, I rarely shoot more than a few hundred rounds per year through my cartridge firearms, and don't normally load my muzzleloader pistol very heavy.

4) There is always a caliber debate that goes on in the back of my head. The days of using a black powder weapon for anything more than recreation are long gone. However, I do have concerns about accuracy, and I know sometimes heavier caliber firearms are built tougher with stronger, flatter shooting loads in mind. Any thoughts?

5) How much can you/do you shoot a cap and ball revolver?

6) If you shoot much in the metallic cartrige world, you know that few revolvers come from the factory with a nice trigger. Any thoughts on whether or not this is the case with BP revolvers, and if playing with the trigger is a job only for professionals, or suited for a weekend-warrior?


Your thoughts are appreciated. I'm fairly ignorant of cap and ball revolvers, but I know a very little bit about muzzleloading from my experience with rebuilding an old CVA Tower Pistol. You won't offend me if you take nothing for granted in your responses. Thanks!

 

[jeepwj992002]

Who makes a CVA revolver kit? These firearms look a lot like similar Piettas that I have seen and heard very bad things about. However, I know that Jukar used to make a lot of CVA stuff and they were decent. Who makes the best replica revolvers? How about the best on a budget?

Deer Creek Products is now handling the CVA kits. I recently obtained an 1861 Colt Navy Brass Frame kit in .44Cal that came from the Possible Shop. I just started working on it. It looks like it will be a decent shooter for the money. I want to snag an 1858 next.

 

[mykeal]

1) Who makes a CVA revolver kit? These firearms look a lot like similar Piettas that I have seen and heard very bad things about. However, I know that Jukar used to make a lot of CVA stuff and they were decent. Who makes the best replica revolvers? How about the best on a budget?

CVA revolver kits are probably Pietta, but that's not necessarily an issue. Pietta's quality problems are well under control and they have been doing much better lately. Having said that, it now becomes and issue as to whether the kits The Possible Shop has are new manufacture or were made a few years ago when Pietta was not doing so well. I suggest you call the Possible Shop and ask them who makes the kits (its obviously NOT CVA) and when they were made.

2) Are Traditions revolvers any good? I've seen some pretty good deals on them at Dixie for a complete starter kit - very tempting.

Traditions revolvers have a good, but not perfect, reputation. They are made by Pietta and imported by Traditions, so what I said above applies here as well. Traditions does have a good customer service reputation, so if you get a lemon they are likely to work with you to replace it.

3) I've heard some things about brass frames stretching a lot more and so on. Is this a really serious concern? If it helps any, I rarely shoot more than a few hundred rounds per year through my cartridge firearms, and don't normally load my muzzleloader pistol very heavy.

It helps a great deal to know that you are not prone to overload and that you don't shoot a lot every day. You should not be afraid of brass frames, then. They are an issue if you shoot heavy loads often. Any revolver can be "worn out" if abused that way, but the brass frame will go faster than a steel frame. Treat the gun well and it will last, like anything else.

4) There is always a caliber debate that goes on in the back of my head. The days of using a black powder weapon for anything more than recreation are long gone. However, I do have concerns about accuracy, and I know sometimes heavier caliber firearms are built tougher with stronger, flatter shooting loads in mind. Any thoughts?

Can't resolve this for you. I like both .44 and .36 caliber bp revolvers, and as well as I shoot, the difference in accuracy, if any, isn't noticeable. I tend to believe that accuracy is an individual gun issue, and with bp you need to develop the best load for each gun (regardless of caliber) by experiment. Good excuse for lots of time on the range - take it.

5) How much can you/do you shoot a cap and ball revolver?

Weekly to twice weekly in spring/summer/fall, monthly to twice monthly in winter.

6) If you shoot much in the metallic cartrige world, you know that few revolvers come from the factory with a nice trigger. Any thoughts on whether or not this is the case with BP revolvers, and if playing with the trigger is a job only for professionals, or suited for a weekend-warrior?

Mechanically these guns are quite simple and a weekend warrior will not be overwhelmed. However, as with any good gun, you must invest in good tools, starting with a gunsmith's screwdriver set. For smoothing the action on one of these you'll need a good set of stones (check Brownell's site, I can provide a url if you need it). I always take a new one apart and debur the action mating parts with a dremel or by hand with stones. There are some good posts about how to disassemble and reassemble these guns. There are no little springs under tension waiting to pop out and run under the couch, and spare parts are available, although some minor shaping/fitting might be necessary. If you buy one of those kits you will find it's pretty simple.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

'mykeal' pretty much covered all your ques, brass-frames will hold up well unless a .44 is shot with max charges frequently, I've had 3 '58 Rems that were good as new when I traded/sold 'em off (wish I had kept one of 'em) the most accurate (tightest grouping) load is never the max load anyway. Mine shot best w/a .38 special caseful (24 grs) and max charge is about 33 gr.

 

[Pork Chop]

Check the sportsmans guide for deals. They pop up from time to time. I finished one of the CVA 1851 pistol kits. My father got it, assembled it and shot it back in the 70's or early 80's. The brass casting was rough as a cob and the grips were a block of wood. Some fitting, filing and sanding and it turned out beautiful. Shoots fine too.

 

[rebel727]

Shop around for a newer model Pietta or Uberti.

 

[cdg]

Thanks for all the great responses everybody! Rest assured, whatever I purchase will be carefully selected. I might even save up for a little extra time and buy a higher quality Uberti. We'll see though...

Any thoughts as to which models I should be looking at? I think I'm still most interested in the Sheriff's 1861 or the pocket 1863 .31 caliber Remington...

 

[Zonie]

As I don't see a 1861 Sheriff's model in my books, I'll guess it is a .36 or .44 cal??
If it is, this is a full size gun that fits most peoples hands very nicely.
The .31 cal Remington is a pocket pistol and is very small. IMO, this makes holding and shooting it accurately a real problem, at least for my hand.

zonie

 

[cdg]

It's listed as "1861 Sheriff" in the link I provided, about 2 or 3 up from the bottom. It is a .36 caliber 5 1/2 inch barrel. Maybe not full sized, but larger than the .31 pocket pistol.

Zonie you probably have seen that in the past I tend to like derringers and novelty/miniature firearms. I think your point is well taken though, so I might certainly consider a larger firearm as well (maybe an 1851 Navy like Wild Bill liked to carry). Perhaps that would be wiser for a first choice anyway...

 

[rebel727]

Unless I'm badly mistaken(never owned one)the sheriff's model is full sized with a short barrel. I have owned a few pocket pistols and they are unhandy and not much power. Not to say they can't be fun but for me not nearly as much fun as a full sized model. :v

 

[mykeal]

The "1861 Sheriff" is a 5 1/2 barrel version of the 1861 Navy, which has a 7 1/2 barrel. Both are .36 cal and have the same size frame. To be honest I have no idea if Colt ever made one for sale, but it's possible. My 1861 Navy is an excellent gun, well balanced, and shoots comfortably. I tend to like the larger frames (Dragoon, 1851 Navy, etc) but the 1861 fits my hand nicely and carries well. A good choice. Whether the shorter barrel on the Sheriff is an improvement or not will be very much a personal choice.

 

[Imaginos]

Unless you are just hung up on having a replica, look at a Ruger Old Army (ROA) before you make your final decision.

It is a .45 caliber pistol, they can be had in 7.5" and 5.5" barrels with fixed or adjustable sights, finished in blue, stainless, or a polished stainless that rivals nickel.

The ROA is not a replica pistol, but built on the Ruger "Old Model" Blackhawk frame and action.
Load light or heavy. You will most likely never wear this pistol out. The instruction manual states that it is not possible to load enough black powder in the chamber to damage the gun.

I got my 7.5" blued ROA with adjustable sights for $270 off[url] GunsAmerica.com[/url]. My local shop sells the 5.5" blued fixed sight version for $350. I have seen a lot of the Traditions and Uberi replicas that come pretty close to the $300 mark.

 

I agree. Love my Ruger Old Army and can shoot better groups with it than with any of my cartridge wheel guns. :thumbsup:

 

[cdg]

Thanks again for all of the responses. Unfortunately, a cap 'n ball will have to go on hold for a little while, as I purchased a lot of 3 pistols- a derringer and, a Kentucky percussion pistol, and a flintlock of some kind, all in need of assembly or restoration. I got a good deal, but we'll have to see what parts cost totals before I consider another firearm. I do like the Ruger Old Army, however, as I am not necessarily hung on a replica, and would love an accurate, sturdy gun that I could shoot a fair ammount without hurting.

 

[peashooterJoe]

Have small hands and the .31 baby dragoon is a good yard tool and the 1862 police and navy are another good yard tool. I also have the full size models in 1851 and 1860 and 1858 Targets. I really like the Uberti 1858 navy target in .36 for squirrels and feral animals that I run across in my wood walks.

The SS Ruger old Army took a hog last summer, flawless and reliable as all get out.I have two and never had to replace any parts. The Pietta, Uberti, ASM, Euroarms can't hold up to constant usage the springs need frequent replacements. Euroarms seem to the best of the Italian Repros and worth it. Good Luck your mileage may vary.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I dropped a 300 lb. hog with my ROA in '04 using the Lee conical slug mold for the ROA, a pass-through chest shot. It ran off but we saw which way it went and found blood after about 50 yds. The shot was little too far back but clipped both lungs good, found it crawled into thicket about 1/2 mile away and near bled-out. But anchored it fer good with another slug to back of the head from about 15 ft. Good eating!!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Is it windy where you shoot? If it is, you may not like the results of a small cal. BP revolver. The charge is determined by the size of the cylinder and lighter charges are affected more by the wind. I see this all of the time at the BP league shoots that I attend year round. The .44 (actually .451-.457) revolvers with heavier charges always win the competitions against the smaller .36 & .31's.

I guess it just depends on what you're trying to do with the revolver...but be foreworned! BP revolvers are like eating potato chips or french fries...one is never enough :rotf: .

Have fun buying several :shocked2: when the money's not as tight! Make smoke!

Dave