A Lurker Emerges, First...steps.

[Swamp Rat]

Even Gents, I've been reading a lot of post on here for quite a while...You guys do some beautiful work, I must say. :bow: well between, your posts, links, Duelist1954 videos and quite a few others. I placed an order on a pre-carved Vincent stock and GM 13/16" 40cal barrel for my fist parts build, and that is where I'm at. I'm not doing a period correct piece, this build will be my rifle. So I want a few things that well just does not go together, period wise. I want this gun to be a shooter and look pretty...just like everyone else that builds one I guess.
I'm posting this to give y'all fare warning....I'm going to be asking a few questions. When I start looking for parts alllll the way to end.
First question: I'm going single trigger, any issue with using a shorter base for the trigger on the Vincent stock?
Second question, Staples vice dovetail under lugs...expecting to do dove tails unless its a waist of work for results.
When I do searches on this board half the time they seem to just give the latest post instead of actual search result do y'all have this issue also?

 

[frogwalking]

I built a rifle using this same barrel a few years ago. I had TOW cut it to 38 inches for weight reasons, and the results were pretty good. Finished rifle was 8 lbs. 4 oz. Accuracy was fine.

I highly reccomend dovetailed underlugs. You get to sharpen up your dovetail cutting skill while installing them where no one sees. Also not going to accidentally drill a hole too close to the bore.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Do you have any books on building? Just reading posts and watching youtube isn't going to cut it.

If you've been lurking a while then likely you know the recommended ones.

If the stock you ordered is pre-inlet for set-triggers then the inlet will be too long for a store bought single trigger plate. You can make one bigger.

My turn. Why don't you just use set-triggers? Most who shoot a .40 are into precision and prefer the control of the set trigger. Setting up a good single trigger isn't as straight forward as you'd think.

Dovetailed lugs or staples? One lug on Vincent and almost all other small caliber half stocks. I find dovetailed lugs less problematic and more secure than staples.

Searches of the board? Can't help you. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Swamp Rat]

Frog, you are correct that would be good practice.
JD, you be surprised what is on the net now. So Much information that going thru it will drive you crazy. Have seen the books listed on here....but I'm not following a pattern to the T.
This will be a full stock with three lugs. Once I get the barrel and stock in hand I will decide what the actual barrel length will be. Really expecting to end up with a 34" barrel.
I am having the stock carved and inlet for the barrel and ramrod but will inlet the trigger and lock myself. Have done some lock work before most are center fire and have even messed up a couple in the process. Don't like a click prior to the gun going off, is one reason I don't care for the double trigger. BTW I do appreciate the reply as I've read several of your post and know you are very wise in your statements.

 

[jdkerstetter]

..you be surprised what is on the net now. So Much information that going thru it will drive you crazy.

No, I wouldn't be surprised. Likely I've seen most of what applies to building ML guns. And what drives me crazy is all the bad informationthat's out there.

Have seen the books listed on here....but I'm not following a pattern to the T.

You are mistaken if you think the books are only for those only building correct longrifles. The important thing to glean from them is craft, procedure and parts relationship. They will pay for themselves in saved mistakes.

....I've read several of your post and know you are very wise in your statements.

Thanks, I read a lot of what I know in books. :wink: Enjoy, J.D.

 

[necchi]

JD, you be surprised what is on the net now.

No I don't think he would.

So Much information that going thru it will drive you crazy.

Exactly, that's why it's a good idea to have even one of the basic books,, for a plan.

Most books have little to do with a rifle pattern, yes there are suggestions for a given style, but the issue is there is a specific process during a build, some things need to be done before others,, and this is where following one process instead of a hodge-podge available from several sources pays off.

I have seen more than one new builder come here and getting help as a "build along" and things start well, then it ends up within a week being 14 guy's with 14 techniques each adding his own info,, the new builder quickly becomes overwhelmed with info.
A basic book, with one process, will help you alot.

 

[MSW]

as regards triggers, I am partial to double set triggers, the R.E. Davis in specific ... you can fire the rifle with just the front trigger (assuming that your lock has a flye) or you can set the trigger and get a super light let- off... what's not to like?

as regards the dovetail question ... there is a very clever little jig for cutting dovetails ... if you send me a PM I will be motivated to dig it up ... I have one and it works very well ... with a little creative shim work, you can even adjust the depth ... you will need a file with a 'safe' (i.e. smooth) side, but this can easily be made if you can't find on in the Brownell's catalogue ...

I've used staples and dovetails, and I've become a fan of the latter ... get some scrap galvie pipe and practice a few - once you've done a half dozen, the scary goes out of it.

you should get, by the way, Peter Alexander's book The Gunsmith of Grenville County, which is avail from Shumway publishing, if I remember correctly... this will more than make up for the purchase price in parts you don't ruin, tools you don't throw across the shop in a frustrated rage, and time in purgatory you won't spend as a result of the bad language you didn't use. also check out the DVDs available from Pioneer Video ... just free advice, and doubtless well worth the price!

good luck with you build ... the coolest tools are the ones you make for yourself ...

make good smoke!

 

[54ball]

I'm not doing a period correct piece, this build will be my rifle.

Why not do a period piece??

You may find through research that some Vincents were offered with the features you want.

Now I'm talking from the perspective of a traditional enthusiast and new builder. What draws me to theses rifles and guns is their historical significance. I study everything I can about them. It helps to lay hands on an original. I do this in hopes in making a rifle as close to the original as possible.

When you deviate from that, the piece kind of looses it's personality. Also that opens up the "make due" or "good e'nuff" attitude that honestly
rings of half a$$ed effort and that can be a stumbling block for a builder. No harm is done if you always do your best effort. Since you chose a Vincent IMHO, build a Vincent.
Lookie here...

A 2 minute search revealed a possible original single trigger Vincent.
This image was linked from a page about the Vincent builders. They claim the rifle is original if so, it is spectacular. I seem to remember the Vincents built rifles into the 20th Century. It very well could be legit.
Do not take my word for it, research it yourself. I do not know if they built fullstocks I suspect they did but if I were doing this build I would sure enough find out.

expecting to do dove tails unless its a waist of work for results.

You seem to worried about time and effort. This build along as with most, is going to take more time effort and thought than you can imagine.

Once I get the barrel and stock in hand I will decide what the actual barrel length will be. Really expecting to end up with a 34" barrel.

2 points...
There is more to shortening a barrel than just chopping it off. It will have to be square and it will have to be re crowned at the muzzle. If that's wrong, no telling where it will hit and if done uneven could mean some interesting sight arrangements at best.

I'm not a Vincent expert, that should shortly be your department but most I have seen have had pretty long barrels. There is a term in rifle building that is very important. That term is architecture. Shortening the barrel may be fine as long as it matches the architecture of the originals.

This is where study comes in. Study Vincents and what barrel length looks the best. Then order that barrel to avoid the whole crowning issue. Standard lengths are 32" 36" and 42". Depending on the barrel maker most can cut and crown it to the length you want but that may mean paying extra for that work.

Don't like a click prior to the gun going off, is one reason I don't care for the double trigger.

I use set triggers and in a hunting situations I find the click to be a non issue but if you do not like it, you just don't like it.

The statement about the click makes me think you plan to hunt deer. All I can say is with a .40 get close and be very disciplined in your shots.

 

[razorbritches]

Swamp Rat, I am not goin to tell you what to do I think lots of things were discovered by people who didn't know you couldn't do it that way. That being said a good book of basic instruction could save you some mistakes. I tend to fly by the seat of my pants I also have made plenty of mistakes that could have been avoided and I am now in the process of considering what books I need to remedy this lack. Scroll down the builders page and read ( Summer Project ) and you will see what I mean. You won't have the same issues I had but you will have some, and a little lookin around might help alot.

 

[frogwalking]

That is good advice about cutting off the barrel. Note that I had TOW shorten the barrel. They cut off the breech end of the barrel and rebreached it, leaving the muzzle end alone. They sent me the cut off part. Too short to use for a pistol.............Your's may be long enough for a short gun, although the twist will be a little slow.

 

[Swamp Rat]

Why not do a period piece??

well probably won't get it right if I tried.

You may find through research that some Vincents were offered with the features you want.??

The Vincent Senior, I saw produced fullstocks, but going precarved it will be his sons butt stock design....so to me that right there...kills the PC.

expecting to do dove tails unless its a waist of work for results.

You seem to worried about time and effort. This build along as with most, is going to take more time effort and thought than you can imagine..

Just could not image a staple being worth putting on a hand made gun Unless there was something worth gaining.

The statement about the click makes me think you plan to hunt deer. All I can say is with a .40 get close and be very disciplined in your shots.

Not deer but hogs it's the largest caliber we can use during small game season on hogs here. Might be going with the double set triggers (not set totally on that yet)...I think I would be happy with what I could get out of a simple single trigger, but if I really want to find out what the rifle could do on paper the double might be more in order.
What got me wanting a 40 cal was ....oh lets see....1990 time frame I was bowhunting and came across a guy aiming one up in a tree. well he did not take a shot and he said that it's what he used for deer and squirrel hunting. Since then I've thought and dreamed of getting one but guess what could not find one for sale anywhere...then the manufactures just quit making them....Heck you can barely find a 36 now. The only way for me to get one is to build it....and what great timing for me the bloomming kits for it is way above what a nice centerfire runs now. We don't have a bp season here in SC....might have a couple of hunts but I have modern stuff for that, Or my little $60 bobcat gun that I like to carry the most.
So really there is a lot more reason NOT to build a gun than to build one. I'm sure there are special technics that I will miss and have problems with but without that what really makes a gun your build. I know I dont have the talent/tooling to carve a stock from a blank. My lines would not come out. I do not have the 3D mind to vision that. modifing something to me come very natural, woood or metal...Hate sodering and welding...reason for a full stock. ...well I guess I'm off until I get stock and barrel in hand. Thanks for the responces.

 

[mikemeteor]

Go to advanced search and make sure the search time frame is set to what you want.
/mm

 

[tenngun]

I have to say I like set triggers but don't mind single,and most of my guns are single. I have stapled lugs and never had any trouble with it,how ever I build for fun and like workin by hand power, and enjoy cutting dovetails.In the end they are stonger, but Ive never lost hold on a stapled one.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Staples can be problematic on barrels with thin walls. The holes drilled leave the wall even thinner and when the punch is used to upset the metal around the foot the bore can be dimpled.

So, while staples are correct and were used on many period pieces, most builders I've talked to about the commercially available ones don't use them for this reason.

Now, silver brazing or soldering them in place might be a solution if one insist on using them on a given build. Enjoy, J.D.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[kaintuck]

:thumbsup:
welcome to the madness!
I like to say....start slow and get slower.....
on everything in a rifle build~it will work out, and you will enjoy the process.

this message approved by tomtom