A Pedersoli Brown Bess Kit

[FlinterNick]

This is my navy arms charleville breech plug. The groove is much wider, this is the most reliable musket I own, it has never misfired once in 20 years of my ownership, the other 10-20 years from the previous owner, I’m not sure.

 

[John Spartan]

Out of curiosity does anyone know if this groove is present on the original 1800’s BB’s/Charlevilles or is it a new and modern idea?

 

[FlinterNick]

Out of curiosity does anyone know if this groove is present on the original 1800’s BB’s/Charlevilles or is it a new and modern idea?

I’ve seen them in 1803 and common rifle breech plugs

 

[John Spartan]

Fascinating. Thank you.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Dave, beautiful work through all those challenges. The owner should be proud of his new firelock.
The Bess looks funny without the beaver tail finials on the lock panels.

 

[Youngblood]

New guy question here, wouldnt it be better to shorten or use a shorter plug so the chamber area was nice and flat and easier to clean?

 

[maillemaker]

New guy question here, wouldnt it be better to shorten or use a shorter plug so the chamber area was nice and flat and easier to clean?

I suspect this would leave either exposed threads or a gap between the breech face and the barrel. This would be a place where fouling/coke can build up and, in rapid fire situations, it can start to glow and/or get hot enough to cause a cookoff when dumping in the next charge.

Here is a Colt Signature Series 2-band musket where the barrel was over-tapped and completely butchered the rifling during manufacture.

 

[dave_person]

Dave, beautiful work through all those challenges. The owner should be proud of his new firelock.
The Bess looks funny without the beaver tail finials on the lock panels.

Hi Bob,
Thanks for nice comment. The irony in what you wrote about the beaver tails is that those carved details were only on the first pattern (1730) Bess and dropped in the very next pattern. Of the approximately 3.7 million Brown Besses made during its operational career, less than 100,000 had those beaver tails. The way I carved the tails of the lock and side plate panels is found on some Irish and Tower Besses but is much more nicely shaped than the vast majority of Besses. They really did not fuss much over that detail and most were indifferently shaped at best. One thing I did this time was really restrain my fussing over the finish of the gun. I almost always finish these Besses much better than the originals, which often were simply file finished. This time my student and I went at it with files, scrapers, and sandpaper but left a lot of marks and scratches. With a slightly shiny finish, it really looks pretty good. I kind of like it. We also only whiskered the stock once so the surface is not glassy like a higher end gun. On the next one I am going to try and restrain myself even more but it is hard because I like well finished stuff.

dave

 

[maillemaker]

My Pedersoli has such a smooth and glossy finish it looks odd.

 

[dave_person]

My Pedersoli has such a smooth and glossy finish it looks odd.

Hi,
In truth, although the bare wood was roughly finished on originals, the linseed oil/varnish they applied often was pretty shiny and it looked to be pretty thick. I also like originals where you can see sawdust or perhaps dirt stuck in the varnish. They pumped them out pretty fast.

dave

 

[FlinterNick]

Dave I’ve come across an orpahed pedersoli Brown Bess lock. I was going to use my TIG welder to weld up the Grice 1762 markings.

We’re there any examples of brown Bess’s with unmarked plates ?

 

[dave_person]

Dave I’ve come across an orpahed pedersoli Brown Bess lock. I was going to use my TIG welder to weld up the Grice 1762 markings.

We’re there any examples of brown Bess’s with unmarked plates ?

Hi,
Captured ones sometimes had the crown markings removed. One problem with welding over the name, you still have the deeply cast in double line border on the plate, the frizzen, flintcock, and top jaw. You have to get rid of all of that if you want the lock to look right. And then you need to engrave the proper thick and thin border close to the edges of the parts. This is a properly engraved Pedersoli lock.

Compared with the stock Pedersoli

dave

 

[PathfinderNC]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for nice comment. The irony in what you wrote about the beaver tails is that those carved details were only on the first pattern (1730) Bess and dropped in the very next pattern. Of the approximately 3.7 million Brown Besses made during its operational career, less than 100,000 had those beaver tails. The way I carved the tails of the lock and side plate panels is found on some Irish and Tower Besses but is much more nicely shaped than the vast majority of Besses. They really did not fuss much over that detail and most were indifferently shaped at best. One thing I did this time was really restrain my fussing over the finish of the gun. I almost always finish these Besses much better than the originals, which often were simply file finished. This time my student and I went at it with files, scrapers, and sandpaper but left a lot of marks and scratches. With a slightly shiny finish, it really looks pretty good. I kind of like it. We also only whiskered the stock once so the surface is not glassy like a higher end gun. On the next one I am going to try and restrain myself even more but it is hard because I like well finished stuff.

dave

Hi Dave, thanks for that explanation about the lock mouldings. As time went along they really did simplify the Bess and eliminated various “artistic” elements like those beaver tails.
I often wonder how interesting and exciting it would be to see and hold originals. You must gain so much keen insight into the firearms (and builders) that way. I am envious but happy there are folks who share their knowledge and insights like you do.

 

[John Spartan]

dave_person
Re-reading this thread for the third time and now with “good eyes” as my kit just arrived. Working on the stock as we speak. I have to say the problems your musket is showing (mainly wood to metal fit, historical inaccuracies still apply) is “unique” to yours. Yes I have the intentional “too deeply set” issues with the fixtures that I am currently taking care of (rasp and file) but basic fit (up, down, left, right) is just fine and tight for the lock, thumbpiece, and triggerguard. Pipes seemed fine too but I’ll take a really close look down the road. The only thing I am not sure about is the butt plate. It will “fit” but looks like it will require some pretty good wood removal on the bottom. Trying to get a close-up shot of the butt plate on a real Bess.
Guess my point is either your kit was a “late Friday” run or I got lucky. Like life, buying something sight unseen, can be a crap shoot.

EDIT: Got all damn windy and forgot why I came here. Is there anyone currently removing the “Grice 17xx” and putting a correct engraving on the lock?

 

[dave_person]

Hi John,
I am glad your gun kit is better. I suspect it is a matter of quality control or lack thereof. My student's gun was purchased through Dixie Gun Works and maybe they have a bad batch of them. Regardless, you are still paying close to $1200 for a gun kit that has issues while Kibler can turn out almost a perfect product for the same money. You still have a lock with the sear screw drilled too low (why did they change that?) so the lock can never be made to look right. I think there are a few folks who will re-mark the locks. I cannot think of anyone offhand. You might contact Paul Ackermann (www.ackermannarms.com) . The problem is the border will still be wrong and that is even harder to correct than the "Grice". I have completely re-marked quite a few Pedersoli Bess locks but I don't make a habit of it anymore. It is too frustrating, too much work, and the end result is still disappointing because of all the other issues with the gun.

dave

 

[John Spartan]

Thanks for the steer!

 

[Rifleman1776]

This is my navy arms charleville breech plug. The groove is much wider, this is the most reliable musket I own, it has never misfired once in 20 years of my ownership, the other 10-20 years from the previous owner, I’m not sure.

When I built my Navy Arms/Pedersoli BB kit in the 1970s the breech plug was magnetized. Don't ask me why. Still a puzzlement. When the provided steel ramrod was put in mushroom end first it would stick. With brass jags screwed on the other end, of course, they didn't stick.

 

[2 shots]

great work as always dave. can a pedersoli bess be dated by serial number? gun has been defarbed. only serial number remains

 

[barracudadave67]

A Pedersoli, being an Italian gun, will have a date code stamped on the barrel. Usually a sqaure box with 2 letters in it. The newer Italian made guns also have a regular date code on them, next to the box.

Dave

 

[wganz]

Nice work and a great job helping out the student.