A Percussion Cap, Hammer Under Barrel, .32 Boot Pistol That Has Been In My Family for Many Generations

[Rambob]

Hello and this is Bob again but with another heirloom firearm I inherited while growing up among my old timer Law relatives spread throughout Ohio. In a previous topic, I presented a nice percussion cap, long rifle that had been in my family for a long time. This topic pertains to a .32, percussion cap, hammer under barrel, boot pistol that was also given to me by my Grandfather, in my youth. I wish I had a good story about this pistol’s history, but it had always been tucked into a cigar box when ever I asked to see it. I am actually hoping that the forum members here can fill in any blanks for me as far as the possible age and pedigree of this pistol.

I have taken and included many nice photos to help out with this task. The only thing I would like to add is that I have not tried to fire a bullet in this pistol, but did fire it with 8 grains of FFFg powder with a felt wad and a ball of tissue stuffed in the barrel. It fired perfectly and it made a nice bang, with the wad/tissue ball being expelled with authority. I don’t think I will ever try to fire this gun, with a real bullet in it for the following reasons. First, I haven’t a clue what would be a reasonable powder load for this pistol. Secondly, the percussion cap nipple has been machined into the pistol and can not be replaced or changed. The hole in the percussion nipple is .076 inches in diameter and goes all the way up into the powder chamber. I am really nervous that if I pressurize the pistol by firing a bullet, the resulting back pressure down the percussion nipple will cause the hammer to try to violently re-cock again and damage the pistol or shooters trigger finger. So, for now, I will delegate the pistol to the wall and being an occasional blank gun. BTW. The bullet mold shown in the photos is the exact mold supplied to make the .32 bullets for this pistol.

As always, any comments, advice or recommendations are invited and welcomed.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Phil Coffins]

Nice pistol. These were very popular in the north east states to include New York. Most are from 1830 to 1860 when revolvers really took over.

 

[Rambob]

Phil, thanks for the response. This pistol is amazingly light and well balanced along with being very concealable in loose, layered clothing. A good “last resort” gun when all other weapons have failed. Also, A great design that with the pistol loaded and hammer down over a live cap, the hammer does not touch the cap, but completely surrounds it so no way can it come loose and be lost.

Bob

 

[Mousegunguy]

Very nice!
I live next door to Hardwick MA where the original ruggles under hammer pistols that started the craze were first made back in 1825.
Yours has a slightly different action. On the ruggles gun the mainspring is mounted off the top strap. Yours is off a bottom strap.
Are there any makers marks or engravings? I can’t make any out in the picture.

 

[Rambob]

Thanks Mousegunguy for your response. A few updates after having been over the external of the pistol with a bright light and a strong magnification glass. First, I can see NO markings or engraving on the pistol of any kind. Secondly, I was wrong about the percussion nipple being integral with the pistol. After chipping away some corrosion around the base of the nipple, it is became obvious that the base of the nipple is square and the nipple is a separate part from the pistol. Because the nipple is in serviceable condition and looks to be rusted solidly in place, I have no desire to try and mess with/replace it. Even though I believe replacing it with a nipple with a much smaller spark orifice, would be necessary to safely fire this pistol with a bullet due to probable blowback on the hammer.

Bob

 

[Rambob]

Mousegunguy, after really straining my eyes through the magnifying glass, I think I see a very small, faint NN on the top flat of the barrel. Does this make any sense?

Bob

 

[cynthialee]

that wouldn't be difficult to bring up to snuff. That nipple just needs some time with some kroil.
get the rust out of the barrel, polish it up some and it will be ready to go

 

[SOLANCO]

I would so want to restore that to shooting condition. Probably would not shoot it though. Not like you found it at a flea market. Respect family heritage.

 

[Mousegunguy]

Mousegunguy, after really straining my eyes through the magnifying glass, I think I see a very small, faint NN on the top flat of the barrel. Does this make any sense?

Bob

There were loads of small shops producing under hammers thru central mass and conn. up into the 1840s.
I don’t know of any that would have used that abbreviation. Could it possibly be part of a repeating engraving pattern that has worn.
There are lots of maker unknown under hammers from that period too but it seems most were marked with some distinctive ‘trade mark’ kinda thing. Be it the engravings or inlays or grip shape.
The beaver tail grip is distinctive.
I’m curious so I’m gonna keep digging and see what I can find

 

[Rambob]

Could the NN be the surviving part of the word CONNECTICUT or abbreviation CONN. stamped on the barrel?

Bob

 

[Rambob]

SOLANCO, I do so want to change out that nipple. I have the knowledge, aptitude, tools, etc. but it is an almost 200 year old heirloom that amazingly is still all original. I just can’t bring myself to change it’s originality even if by successfully changing out the nipple for one I can fire. BTW. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IS THE MINIMUM POWDER LOAD YOU WOULD USE TO FIRE THIS PISTOL? JUST CURIOUS FOR NOW.

Bob

 

[John May]

Thanks for posting the pictures, especially the stripped down ones, most enlightening! I have a soft spot for underhammer pistols and even use a custom built one for target shooting, one of many...

 

[John May]

SOLANCO, I do so want to change out that nipple. I have the knowledge, aptitude, tools, etc. but it is an almost 200 year old heirloom that amazingly is still all original. I just can’t bring myself to change it’s originality even if by successfully changing out the nipple for one I can fire. BTW. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IS THE MINIMUM POWDER LOAD YOU WOULD USE TO FIRE THIS PISTOL? JUST CURIOUS FOR NOW.

Bob

Just out of interest I have an original .32 cal 'boot' pistol which I have shot using 8 grains of 3F powder. I checked everything beforehand including using a borescope that I borrowed from work. The nipple is in very good condition leaving me to suspect it has had very little use. Downside was with 8 grains the patched ball was virtually in line with the nipple hole leading to quite a few misfires. I solved this by using an inert filler first, followed by the powder, then the patched ball. Not best practice but it worked!
Don't know if it's possible on this particular pistol but we have a couple of Black Powder Gunsmiths here in the UK that can platinum line original nipples? I have an original .40 cal single shot that has been lined but that's a different ball game.
I will post some pictures when I have a spare minute.

 

[Rambob]

John May, thanks for your insight. The nipple on this pistol is located in the breech plug, screwed into the barrel, so the gun should not be prone for the type of misfire you mentioned. I am still debating about whether I should fire this pistol and take a chance damaging it, thus making me cry. I look forward to seeing photos of your UH pistols.

Bob

 

[John May]

John May, thanks for your insight. The nipple on this pistol is located in the breech plug, screwed into the barrel, so the gun should not be prone for the type of misfire you mentioned. I am still debating about whether I should fire this pistol and take a chance damaging it, thus making me cry. I look forward to seeing photos of your UH pistols.

Bob

From the top Left side pointing right:

A Hiliard 'Turkey Rifle' .30 cal. Originally made to shoot a bullet rather than a patched ball. I've never fired it but it all checks out okay.
A .30 cal Target Pistol, no name, missing the rear sight - never fired.
The .32 cal 'Boot Pistol' mentioned in my post.
A .36 cal barrel marked 'Cast Steel' - no other markings - never fired although checks out okay.
A .36 cal marked very faintly 'Anderson' again never fired, has a crack on the hammer spur which would let go quite easily.
An un-named ring trigger under hammer pepper-box, poor condition.
An English approx .33 cal pistol, no name although London proof marks on barrel.

From the top Right side pointing left:

A .36 cal Billinghurst Buggy Rifle - Has been fired by the previous owner but missing the clip on stock.
A .36 Feinwerkbau History No 1. State of the art Target pistol and on certificate in the UK. I sold it as I found the grip to be too severe.
A .40 cal Ardesa Target Pistol. My go-to gun for anything where I need to be accurate. Best score to date 99/100! On certificate in the UK.
A .40 cal Arsa Target Underhammer. New to me and poorly made. Accurate... up to a point. Rear sight and half cock notch broke within a week of using it. Manufacturers not interested??

I have a few more, a .32 cal (Jim) Greathead, a .45 cal (Jim) Alcock custom made Target Pistol and also a Hopkins and Allen .45 cal pistol which needs a bit of TLC. Finally I have a (Jim) Alcock .45 cal Underhammer Flintlock pistol which works well and is surprisingly accurate, having a superb sight picture.

 

[Relic shooter]

Hello and this is Bob again but with another heirloom firearm I inherited while growing up among my old timer Law relatives spread throughout Ohio. In a previous topic, I presented a nice percussion cap, long rifle that had been in my family for a long time. This topic pertains to a .32, percussion cap, hammer under barrel, boot pistol that was also given to me by my Grandfather, in my youth. I wish I had a good story about this pistol’s history, but it had always been tucked into a cigar box when ever I asked to see it. I am actually hoping that the forum members here can fill in any blanks for me as far as the possible age and pedigree of this pistol.

I have taken and included many nice photos to help out with this task. The only thing I would like to add is that I have not tried to fire a bullet in this pistol, but did fire it with 8 grains of FFFg powder with a felt wad and a ball of tissue stuffed in the barrel. It fired perfectly and it made a nice bang, with the wad/tissue ball being expelled with authority. I don’t think I will ever try to fire this gun, with a real bullet in it for the following reasons. First, I haven’t a clue what would be a reasonable powder load for this pistol. Secondly, the percussion cap nipple has been machined into the pistol and can not be replaced or changed. The hole in the percussion nipple is .076 inches in diameter and goes all the way up into the powder chamber. I am really nervous that if I pressurize the pistol by firing a bullet, the resulting back pressure down the percussion nipple will cause the hammer to try to violently re-cock again and damage the pistol or shooters trigger finger. So, for now, I will delegate the pistol to the wall and being an occasional blank gun. BTW. The bullet mold shown in the photos is the exact mold supplied to make the .32 bullets for this pistol.

As always, any comments, advice or recommendations are invited and welcomed.

Regards,

Bob

EASY FIX TO REMOVE STUCK NIPPLES
Hi Bob,
Thats a neat pistol you have & looks as if it might be an ideal candidate to restore to shooting condition.
I shot primarily shoot original flint & percussion firearms for over 50 years & in some cases the nipples are badly corroded as yours, if you soak the barrel & especially the breach area overnight in a 50/50 solution of acetone & auto transmission fluid the nipple will come out.
Then you can drill & tap the hole to accept a good quality nipple. I favor Treso nipples as they usually last a lifetime, they can be darkened with Birchwood Casey brass black to match your pistols patina.
relic shooter

 

[Relic shooter]

View attachment 136547

From the top Left side pointing right:

A Hiliard 'Turkey Rifle' .30 cal. Originally made to shoot a bullet rather than a patched ball. I've never fired it but it all checks out okay.
A .30 cal Target Pistol, no name, missing the rear sight - never fired.
The .32 cal 'Boot Pistol' mentioned in my post.
A .36 cal barrel marked 'Cast Steel' - no other markings - never fired although checks out okay.
A .36 cal marked very faintly 'Anderson' again never fired, has a crack on the hammer spur which would let go quite easily.
An un-named ring trigger under hammer pepper-box, poor condition.
An English approx .33 cal pistol, no name although London proof marks on barrel.

From the top Right side pointing left:

A .36 cal Billinghurst Buggy Rifle - Has been fired by the previous owner but missing the clip on stock.
A .36 Feinwerkbau History No 1. State of the art Target pistol and on certificate in the UK. I sold it as I found the grip to be too severe.
A .40 cal Ardesa Target Pistol. My go-to gun for anything where I need to be accurate. Best score to date 99/100! On certificate in the UK.
A .40 cal Arsa Target Underhammer. New to me and poorly made. Accurate... up to a point. Rear sight and half cock notch broke within a week of using it. Manufacturers not interested??

I have a few more, a .32 cal (Jim) Greathead, a .45 cal (Jim) Alcock custom made Target Pistol and also a Hopkins and Allen .45 cal pistol which needs a bit of TLC. Finally I have a (Jim) Alcock .45 cal Underhammer Flintlock pistol which works well and is surprisingly accurate, having a superb sight picture.

View attachment 136554

Very nice collection !!
That flint under hammer looks like it would be a hoot to shoot
Relic shooter in Idaho

 

[Rambob]

John May, Really nice collection you have there! Thanks for sharing. Relic Shooter, thanks for the tip on the percussion nipple replacement.

Bob

 

[flntlokr]

Hello and this is Bob again but with another heirloom firearm I inherited while growing up among my old timer Law relatives spread throughout Ohio. In a previous topic, I presented a nice percussion cap, long rifle that had been in my family for a long time. This topic pertains to a .32, percussion cap, hammer under barrel, boot pistol that was also given to me by my Grandfather, in my youth. I wish I had a good story about this pistol’s history, but it had always been tucked into a cigar box when ever I asked to see it. I am actually hoping that the forum members here can fill in any blanks for me as far as the possible age and pedigree of this pistol.

I have taken and included many nice photos to help out with this task. The only thing I would like to add is that I have not tried to fire a bullet in this pistol, but did fire it with 8 grains of FFFg powder with a felt wad and a ball of tissue stuffed in the barrel. It fired perfectly and it made a nice bang, with the wad/tissue ball being expelled with authority. I don’t think I will ever try to fire this gun, with a real bullet in it for the following reasons. First, I haven’t a clue what would be a reasonable powder load for this pistol. Secondly, the percussion cap nipple has been machined into the pistol and can not be replaced or changed. The hole in the percussion nipple is .076 inches in diameter and goes all the way up into the powder chamber. I am really nervous that if I pressurize the pistol by firing a bullet, the resulting back pressure down the percussion nipple will cause the hammer to try to violently re-cock again and damage the pistol or shooters trigger finger. So, for now, I will delegate the pistol to the wall and being an occasional blank gun. BTW. The bullet mold shown in the photos is the exact mold supplied to make the .32 bullets for this pistol.

As always, any comments, advice or recommendations are invited and welcomed.

Regards,

Bob

From the pic showing the nipple, I think tthe nipple is indeed removeable. The flats around the base of the nipple are for a wrench. No way that they would have been machined like that down in the recess as they are for no purpose. Some time with penetrating oil, and judicioous application of heat, along with a good-fitting wrench should do the trick. Nice old pistol!

 

[Auldjin]

This is mine, by Westwood.