A Question for You Idaho Boys

[Notchy Bob]

Have you ever heard of a late 19th-century guide or packer named Irving Roy "Cougar" Anderson? I believe he was based in the Coeur d'Alene area. If you have heard of him, what can you tell me about him?

I was browsing around on the web and ended up on the website for Cisco's Gallery. This is an art and antique dealer in Coeur d'Alene. They actually have a pretty interesting selection of antique guns and Indian artifacts, although their prices seem exorbitant, to me. Anyway, I ended up on this page:

I have no idea why they call it a "Fort Rifle," but it is a fine old plains rifle that was reportedly used by Roy "Cougar" Anderson, who described it as "The best shooting rifle he ever owned." If you go to the website (Right Here), you can check it out for yourself. You can read what they provide as a description in the image above, so I don't need to repeat it.

At first glance, this appears to be a fairly ordinary old plains rifle, but I find it remarkable for its condition. Mr. Anderson must have cherished this gun. In addition, if you look at some of the close-up photos, you see there is some nice engraving on it. This is a fine old gun! It is put together with a drum and nipple arrangement, rather than a patent breech, and it has a regular "Kentucky style" short tang and trigger plate, unlike most Hawken rifles.

It has a nicely carved beavertail cheek-piece, but I think the maple stock may have been artificially striped:

Also, it looks as if the drum may have been vented. Take a gander at this, and see what you think:

Cisco's Gallery also has a couple of other artifacts related to this man. One is an ordinary-looking old Remington cap and ball Army revolver, which was reportedly a Civil War battlefield pick-up, either by Mr. Anderson or his father:

...and the other is a canvas backpack with a wooden frame, reportedly designed and patented by Mr. Anderson's 17 year old son, who was working as his "camp boy."

In any event, I am intrigued. I like all muzzleloaders, but these old plains rifles are the ones that really get my attention. This one belonged to a man who apparently continued to use it (and a cap and ball revolver) past the time when muzzleloaders were considered obsolete. And that nickname, "Cougar Anderson"... surely there's a story associated with that! I've poked around some on the web, and even looked through a few old obituaries and census reports, but haven't really found anything.

On a sad note, these three items, which have evidently been kept together and well maintained for several generations, are now up for sale individually. We wonder what the story is on that. Hard times and financial stress? Lack of interest by the current generation of owners? In addition, the revolver must have surely had a holster, and the rifle a pouch and horn. What has happened to those? It's too bad all of these things couldn't be kept together, and maybe put on display in a local museum in the area where Mr. Anderson worked.

So, if you can share any information or additional images of "Cougar" Anderson, I would appreciate it! Those old-time hunters and packers often had tales to tell, and I love to hear them.

Much obliged,

Notchy Bob

 

[user 50393]

Cougar Dave Lewis, real person originally from Oregon. There is a book that details his 'exploits'. His is an interesting story.

 

[4575wcf]

The rifle looks like a Dimick. Any markings legible? Dimick was the full equal of the Hawkens IMO, but I think he used the Kentucky style tang.

 

[bigstick6017555]

https://idahgp.genealogyvillage.com/Valley/images/Lewis,Dave.jpg

July 6, 1922, Free Press:

"You know, it has always been a mystery to me to know how all the people you see in a big city like Boise make a living." said Dave Lewis, who recently went to Boise. He had not been in the capital city since 1878.
Mr. Lewis lives on Big Creek beyond Thunder Mountain country and with the the exception of two years, 1908-10 spent in White Bird, the veteran trapper has not been out of his forest home sine 1900. Tuesday, when he rode from Cascade to Boise, was the third time he had been in a car, having seen one for the first time two years ago.

-- Cheryl Helmer, Warren Times/A collection of news about Warren, Idaho.


Duane L. Petersen in "Valley County, The Way it Was", D & D Books, Cascade, Idaho, 2002, writes:

(p. 163) "During the Sheepeater War he was a guide for the Army chasing Indians in the Salmon River breaks. . . He homesteaded on the Middle Fork of the Salmon. . .For years he made his income frm the bounty paid on cougars and on trapping."

Cort Conley in "Idaho Loners/Hermits, Solitaries, and Individualist," Backeddy Books, Cambridge, Idaho, 1994. p. 44-55, tells the story in greater detail.

"Lewis claims to have served in the Union Army at the siege of Vicksburg in 1863; to have been a volunteer at the Modoc Indian uprising in N. Calif. in 1872; and to hve been a scout with 7th Calvary Captain Frederick Benteen (also a Vicksburg veteran) in Montana Territory in 1876.
"The tapestry of known facts concerning these claim is threadbare, That Lewis was b. in 1944 in Wales & brought to New Orleans at age of 4 is beyond a doubt. So are his whereabouts in summer, 1877, when he traveled from Oregon, where where he had been prospectiong and trapping, with the Henry Jones family to Idaho's Camas Prairie near Grangeville.
"In 1928, Lewis, with the assistance of friends, finally received a homesteaded certificate for his sixty-three acres. ..The homestead spans the mouths of Rush, Trail and Sheep creeks, although the last two names have been changed to Pioneer and Cliff creeks.
"Five years later, by chance, he met Jess Taylor, an eastern Idaho rancher and Boise building contractor . . In fall 1934, Taylor bought the homestead for $1,200.
"In June 1936 he contracted pneumonia, yet managed to ride horseback, accompanied by two of his dogs, over 25 miles to Big Creek Ranger Station. He fell off his horse at the end of the airstrip, and was helped inside the warehouse, where he rested for a couple of days . . When his condition did not improve an ambulance sped for Cascade by way of Yellow Pine . En-route it had a head-on collision with a truck. Lewis died the next day, age 92, at Veteran's Admin. Hospital in Boise, his only visit to a hospital.

"Thirty-two years later the Taylors sold their ranch to the University of Idaho as a field station for wilderness study

 

[Notchy Bob]

Thanks to all who responded. I did follow up on @trebore 's suggestion and investigated "Cougar Dave" (or "Uncle Dave") Lewis. There was indeed a book about this interesting man, by Pat Cary Peek, entitled Cougar Dave: Mountain Man of Idaho.

I think the book is out of print, and used copies are scarce and egregiously overpriced. I would like to read it, but will wait until I can find one at a reasonable price.

Uncle Dave Lewis must have been quite a character. I had found those references given by @bigstick6017555 , and would recommend them to anyone interested in knowing more about Mr. Lewis. He actually sounds (and looked) a lot like the legendary Ben Lilly, the Arizona lion hunter. This is Dave Lewis, on the left:

...and Ben Lilly, for comparison. Ben is the one on the left in this picture:

However, as remarkable as Dave Lewis was, I don't think he was the same person a the man who owned the subject rifle. It may be hard to imagine two fellows in the same state with a nickname like "Cougar," but information on the Cisco's Gallery website indicates the rifle was owned by Irving Roy "Cougar" Anderson. I haven't found anything yet to connect Dave Lewis to the rifle. So, the search continues...

The rifle looks like a Dimick. Any markings legible? Dimick was the full equal of the Hawkens IMO, but I think he used the Kentucky style tang.

I appreciate the comment, but would respectfully disagree. Here is an original Dimick:

Dimick made a lot of guns, and he also sold guns made by other builders in his "emporium." There were a lot of people building "plains" and "mountain" rifles in the mid 19th century. There are several reasons that I don't think the Anderson rifle was made by Dimick. For one, all of the classic Dimick "plains rifles" that I know of had a patent breech, rather than the drum and nipple arrangement as on the Anderson rifle. There is a Dimick plains rifle shown on the Rock Island Auction website that otherwise looks very similar to the Anderson rifle, but it has the typical Dimick patent breech and it is in a relatively smaller .45 caliber. The description of the Anderson rifle on Cisco's website indicates it is ".50 caliber or larger." The big-bore Dimick plains rifles more frequently had the "hook and scroll" triggerguard, no cheekpiece, and the poured nosecap, as you see here. The Anderson rifle has a "double hook" triggerguard, a beavertail cheekrest, and a nosecap with a separate entry pipe for the ramrod, in addition to the drum and nipple rather than a patent breech. Dimick stamped his barrels with H.E. DIMICK in block letters, while the Anderson rifle appears to have a name in script on the top barrel flat:

I can't make it out, and the folks at Cisco's didn't mention anything about the barrel markings. The inscription on the rifle's sideplate probably identifies a former owner rather than the builder.

However, I could be wrong, and the suggestion is appreciated. Meanwhile, I'll keep poking around for more information about Roy "Cougar" Anderson.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[4575wcf]

I stand corrected. I do not mind at all, this is how we learn. The Dimick rifle I am referring to, I pulled up from memory in a publication. I will see if I can dig it up.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I stand corrected. I do not mind at all, this is how we learn. The Dimick rifle I am referring to, I pulled up from memory in a publication. I will see if I can dig it up.

We are all still learning, my friend. I sure am. Your comment inspired me to look a little harder at some of the Dimick rifles that are "out there," and I just found this one today:

This is the rifle on the Rock Island Auctions website, mentioned above. I am not an expert by any means, but in my fumbling research, I have never run across another one like it. However, the barrel is clearly stamped H.E. DIMICK. Here is a link with a good description and some terrific pictures: Rock Island Dimick Rifle

Thank you for your comments!

Notchy Bob

 

[4575wcf]

I believe this to be precisely the Dimick rifle I saw pictured some many moons ago. I never forget anything, I just forget where I left it : ). Note the patent breech, a point I missed earlier.

 

[Celticstoneman]

Notchy Bob,
What an amazing story or two you gentlemen have presented us with.. This brings to mind a verse I have often heard at funerals and memorials.I'm sure you all are familiar with it. Thus ends the life of our friend. Men such as he will never be seen again.
Thank you both for the information.
John

 

[4575wcf]

Look at that old bird. Not an ounce of fat anywhere. He would take you out in the woods, walk away and lose you if you were half his age. Those tough old timers are the ones I admire most.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Hi all. I am not sure, but believe Ben Lilly was a distant uncle. My grandmother often mentioned 'Uncle Ben" the crazy hunter. ML friends say we look exactly alike [but I am better looking, of course]. In the picture of him, posted above, I do notice the resemblance, as does my wife. Who knows? I would not have liked the old bird much. If a dog didn't please him, he just killed it. 'Taint my style, for sure. Dale

 

[Dale Lilly]

Here is a better picture of 'uncle Ben"

 

[deerstalkert]

Hi all. I am not sure, but believe Ben Lilly was a distant uncle. My grandmother often mentioned 'Uncle Ben" the crazy hunter. ML friends say we look exactly alike [but I am better looking, of course]. In the picture of him, posted above, I do notice the resemblance, as does my wife. Who knows? I would not have liked the old bird much. If a dog didn't please him, he just killed it. 'Taint my style, for sure. Dale

please pardon this left turn OP. i will address Cougar Anderson presently.

Dale , i am of the same bent as far as liking Old Ben, but i, having spent time in his haunts have a small excuse for his treatment of dogs.
i have a house in the general area he worked and during the time he was active one had better been able to survive on dirt and air, because anything else was dearly acquired. if a dog didn't add twice the return as his keep those old guy's just couldn't keep him in the string. water alone was so scarce they were perpetually thirsty. luckily their intended victims also needed water so the rimrocks along any water was choice hunting.
when i was a knee high sprout an old cat hunter took a liking to me and we chased cats on the back of his Appy.

now as to Anderson. i have examined that collection. and a collection it is. I tried to nail down Anderson and he is a wraith. very nice collection but Cisco's have been pimping it for, if i remember right, about 20 years now.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I understand that in New Mexico and Arizona, but he is reputed to have done the same thing in Alabama and Mississippi area where he actually lived and hunted bears. I have his books and those written about him. Fascinating guy and a truly great hunter. He often guided for Teddy Roosevelt on his hunts as well. Dale

 

[Dale Lilly]

While Ben Lilly was active after most of our era of interest [born 1856], he certainly was familiar with the ML arms of his early years. If you are interested, Wikipedia has a pretty thorough short summary of his life and exploits. Dale

 

[Bullitdog]

Excellent thread. The best I’ve read on this forum for quite some time.

 

[Les Staley]

Had my hair cut by Rob Lilly in St Maries Idaho. He barboured here for a few years in the early 2000s. Since passed away. He told me Ben was his uncle.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Had my hair cut by Rob Lilly in St Maries Idaho. He barboured here for a few years in the early 2000s. Since passed away. He told me Ben was his uncle.

Very possible. We are a very large family all across the US and Europe. No, I am not an heir to the Pharmaceutical money Polecat

 

[Greg Y]

If there was anyone who would know it would have been NW Pony Express. Sadly they evaporated in the covid era.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2006/dec/23/northwest-pony-express-had-its-start-in-california/

 

[D.Summers]

Dale, I love that painted colorized picture of Uncle Ben Lilly! Very well done by someone! I remember finding little tubes of paint once when I was a wee fellow, and I asked my mother about them. She told me that some folks would "paint" old sepia, or black and white photos to make them "in color"! The old fellow looks a bit like my ol' dad when he didn't trim his whiskers!! Great posts!!