• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

A rococo carved and sterling silver adorned Germanic Jaeger

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Dec 30, 2004
Messages
4,769
Reaction score
6,822
Location
New England
A contemporary (read: modern) build, but still ... pretty cool if you ask me! Got it for a song too ... just couldn't pass it up~!

The Rifle – This particular Jaeger rifle was completely custom made by John Derrick around 2010. It is from his personal collection and appears unfired; featuring a 31" Colerain swamped barrel with a .45 caliber mirror bore. Derrick loosely copied this rifle from the "high art" Jaeger hunting rifles built in the Germanic states during the late 17th and early 18th Centuries. These rifles were generally elaborately engraved with Grecian figures and Rococo scroll work (also known as 'late Baroque' style, it is an exceptionally ornamental and dramatic style of architecture) where Derrick copied those details in the creation of this rifle.

The Lock & Trigger – Ignition is provided by an American-made "Germanic Jaeger Rifle Flintlock" by R.E Davis. Davis has been producing custom early American flintlock components for more than 40 years and their locks have an excellent reputation for being ultra reliable, throwing a shower of sparks with every pull of the trigger. This lock is no exception with a solid half and full cock and excellent spark. Matching the Davis Germanic lock is the Davis early Germanic set trigger, which functions perfectly and reliably.

The Furniture – All the furniture was entirely custom made by Derrick, as heavily inspired by Germanic Jaeger furniture of the early period. Each piece was individually handmade from sterling silver cast by the lost wax method. The furniture includes filigree scrollwork intertwined with grotesque figures and animals; depicting the allegory of Actaeon and Diana the Huntress, from Greek mythology.

The Wood – The stock was shaped from a lightly figured piece of European Walnut. Deep rococo relief carving covers the majority of the stock and there are no cracks, chips or damage to the stock, with ornate rococo scrollwork carved overall through the straight grip and forearm.

The Builder – John B. Derrick began making black powder firearms in the early 1990s, after retiring from a career as an English Literature professor. His first inspiration came from his memories of the European firearms he had collected in Germany as an adolescent, during his family's stay there. It was during this period that his interest in antique firearms had first developed, and his aesthetic affinity for the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries was established. Derrick's study of the guns of that era began with a focus on German Jaeger rifles and expanded to include works by French and English gun makers. He actively sought out original pieces that inspired his contemporary interpretations of European masterworks. His guns are rarely exact replicas, yet they are all true in spirit to the pre-industrial baroque and rococo styles that he loved. His trademarks are the use of elk antler, sterling silver and bronze inlay, and his fine woodcarving. He produced his own custom brass and silver furniture by the lost wax method, without the use of molds, therefore each piece is unique. His guns include snaphaunces and wheellocks, as well as flintlocks, where Jaegers and cheek-stocked hunting rifles were his specialty. Mr. Derrick recently passed away on May 14th, 2024.

Too ornate? – Maybe

Will I shoot it? – Oh heck yeah! It handles like a dream! And I can even cheek it well as a lefty shooter without any of the adornment hitting my face.


IMG_1303.jpeg
IMG_1305.jpeg
IMG_1304.jpeg
IMG_1311.jpeg
IMG_1306.jpeg
IMG_1312.jpeg
IMG_1310.jpeg
IMG_1314.jpeg
IMG_1315.jpeg
 
Hi Flint

WOW !!! Serious time was allocated making this gun. Yes, maybe a bit too decorated for many tastes. But, at the right price, I too would have a difficult time passing this one up. It does indeed have that "Old World Bavarian" look about it. And it will certainly get some attention at the range. About how much does she weigh ?
Congratulations !!!!

Rick
 
A contemporary (read: modern) build, but still ... pretty cool if you ask me! Got it for a song too ... just couldn't pass it up~!

The Rifle – This particular Jaeger rifle was completely custom made by John Derrick around 2010. It is from his personal collection and appears unfired; featuring a 31" Colerain swamped barrel with a .45 caliber mirror bore. Derrick loosely copied this rifle from the "high art" Jaeger hunting rifles built in the Germanic states during the late 17th and early 18th Centuries. These rifles were generally elaborately engraved with Grecian figures and Rococo scroll work (also known as 'late Baroque' style, it is an exceptionally ornamental and dramatic style of architecture) where Derrick copied those details in the creation of this rifle.

The Lock & Trigger – Ignition is provided by an American-made "Germanic Jaeger Rifle Flintlock" by R.E Davis. Davis has been producing custom early American flintlock components for more than 40 years and their locks have an excellent reputation for being ultra reliable, throwing a shower of sparks with every pull of the trigger. This lock is no exception with a solid half and full cock and excellent spark. Matching the Davis Germanic lock is the Davis early Germanic set trigger, which functions perfectly and reliably.

The Furniture – All the furniture was entirely custom made by Derrick, as heavily inspired by Germanic Jaeger furniture of the early period. Each piece was individually handmade from sterling silver cast by the lost wax method. The furniture includes filigree scrollwork intertwined with grotesque figures and animals; depicting the allegory of Actaeon and Diana the Huntress, from Greek mythology.

The Wood – The stock was shaped from a lightly figured piece of European Walnut. Deep rococo relief carving covers the majority of the stock and there are no cracks, chips or damage to the stock, with ornate rococo scrollwork carved overall through the straight grip and forearm.

The Builder – John B. Derrick began making black powder firearms in the early 1990s, after retiring from a career as an English Literature professor. His first inspiration came from his memories of the European firearms he had collected in Germany as an adolescent, during his family's stay there. It was during this period that his interest in antique firearms had first developed, and his aesthetic affinity for the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries was established. Derrick's study of the guns of that era began with a focus on German Jaeger rifles and expanded to include works by French and English gun makers. He actively sought out original pieces that inspired his contemporary interpretations of European masterworks. His guns are rarely exact replicas, yet they are all true in spirit to the pre-industrial baroque and rococo styles that he loved. His trademarks are the use of elk antler, sterling silver and bronze inlay, and his fine woodcarving. He produced his own custom brass and silver furniture by the lost wax method, without the use of molds, therefore each piece is unique. His guns include snaphaunces and wheellocks, as well as flintlocks, where Jaegers and cheek-stocked hunting rifles were his specialty. Mr. Derrick recently passed away on May 14th, 2024.

Too ornate? – Maybe

Will I shoot it? – Oh heck yeah! It handles like a dream! And I can even cheek it well as a lefty shooter without any of the adornment hitting my face.


View attachment 325494View attachment 325495View attachment 325496View attachment 325497View attachment 325498View attachment 325499View attachment 325500View attachment 325501View attachment 325502
 
How much does she weigh ?
This Jaeger's a beast, for a 45-cal of 31” Colrain barrel. She weighs in at 9.6 pounds. It has a heavy English Walnut stock.

However, looking at the specs for a Colrain Jaeger barrel and it appears that the SAME barrel is made from 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58 up to 62-caliber. If I end up "really liking it" ... she’s off to Bobby Hoyt for a re-bore baby!

Unless … she’s suitable/shootable as a target gun, i.e., ‘short/heavy’ barrel concept et al.
 
This Jaeger's a beast, for a 45-cal of 31” Colrain barrel. She weighs in at 9.6 pounds. It has a heavy English Walnut stock.

However, looking at the specs for a Colrain Jaeger barrel and it appears that the SAME barrel is made from 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58 up to 62-caliber. If I end up "really liking it" ... she’s off to Bobby Hoyt for a re-bore baby!

Unless … she’s suitable/shootable as a target gun, i.e., ‘short/heavy’ barrel concept et al.
The carving is pretty nice gotta say .
 
Well, the Jaeger will shoot, at least from a bench, but she hits way high.

These were 3-shot groups at 1” dots at 25-yards. It isn’t shown, but 50-grains did not do so well, it had 2 in one hole, the other 1/2” out, but it could’ve been me, all 3Fg charges.

I didn’t have much time at the range, as it started pouring! For some reason, my glasses were funking up offhand, but I had no problem seeing the target at least whilst benching - when it was nice out - maybe it was the wind and heavy mist coming in straight at me. I should be printing 1-1/2” offhand groups or better at that distance, LOL!

IMG_1365.jpeg
 
That is a magnificent example of a Germanic Jager!! I have two originals, and I'm trying to finagle a Pedersoli Jager that I can take into the woods without worrying too much about it.

+1 of a taller front sight!
 
That is a magnificent example of a Germanic Jager!! I have two originals, and I'm trying to finagle a Pedersoli Jager that I can take into the woods without worrying too much about it.

+1 of a taller front sight!
Have you actually handled and shot what Pedersoli calls a Jaeger?

Probably not a fair comparison, but compared to original Jaegers the Pedersoli feels like a club. If you can find a well built contemporary Jaeger I believe you will be much happier with it than with the Pedersoli. It amazed me how eloquent or dainty for lack of a better description, the originals were with their large bore (58-65 caliber), short swamped barrel (25-30”) and LOP of 13” or less. Unfortunately, many builders today, Pedersoli included, make their ‘Jaegers’ real heavyweights in my opinion when compared to originals.

Just for a little bit of background, I had the opportunity to shoot original Jaegers in Germany and Austria, and they all seemed lighter, quicker, easier to handle and pointed better than TC Senecas and Cherokees I have owned as an example.

I also had chance to shoot a Pedersoli Jaeger flintlock and while it functioned fine, it just didn’t have that Jaeger feel or handle like one. Barrel heavy and very much on the wrong side of 8 pounds for Jaeger. Balanced and felt more like a barrel heavy full stock plains rifle. Only had chance to shoot conicals out of it and found it accurate. Believe the the straight vs swamped barrel was the real killer in how it handled. This from a guy who loves his bored out to 58 caliber short barreled T/Cs.
 
Have you actually handled and shot what Pedersoli calls a Jaeger?

Probably not a fair comparison, but compared to original Jaegers the Pedersoli feels like a club. If you can find a well built contemporary Jaeger I believe you will be much happier with it than with the Pedersoli. It amazed me how eloquent or dainty for lack of a better description, the originals were with their large bore (58-65 caliber), short swamped barrel (25-30”) and LOP of 13” or less. Unfortunately, many builders today, Pedersoli included, make their ‘Jaegers’ real heavyweights in my opinion when compared to originals.

Just for a little bit of background, I had the opportunity to shoot original Jaegers in Germany and Austria, and they all seemed lighter, quicker, easier to handle and pointed better than TC Senecas and Cherokees I have owned as an example.

I also had chance to shoot a Pedersoli Jaeger flintlock and while it functioned fine, it just didn’t have that Jaeger feel or handle like one. Barrel heavy and very much on the wrong side of 8 pounds for Jaeger. Balanced and felt more like a barrel heavy full stock plains rifle. Only had chance to shoot conicals out of it and found it accurate. Believe the the straight vs swamped barrel was the real killer in how it handled. This from a guy who loves his bored out to 58 caliber short barreled T/Cs.
***SIGH*** I wish we had this conversation ten days ago before I made the offer on Gun Broker... I thought I did my research. Well, it's not the first time I've made a foolish decision and it won't be the last... Which of the available kits do you think is best? Pecatonca River has a swamped barrel option...

BTW, you are absolutely spot on about the lively feel of an original! My two originals swing like a shotgun on a skeet field. :)

Maybe I can get someone to graft a swamped barrel onto the Pedersoli? Just a thought...
 
Have you actually handled and shot what Pedersoli calls a Jaeger?

Probably not a fair comparison, but compared to original Jaegers the Pedersoli feels like a club. If you can find a well built contemporary Jaeger I believe you will be much happier with it than with the Pedersoli. It amazed me how eloquent or dainty for lack of a better description, the originals were with their large bore (58-65 caliber), short swamped barrel (25-30”) and LOP of 13” or less. Unfortunately, many builders today, Pedersoli included, make their ‘Jaegers’ real heavyweights in my opinion when compared to originals.

Just for a little bit of background, I had the opportunity to shoot original Jaegers in Germany and Austria, and they all seemed lighter, quicker, easier to handle and pointed better than TC Senecas and Cherokees I have owned as an example.

I also had chance to shoot a Pedersoli Jaeger flintlock and while it functioned fine, it just didn’t have that Jaeger feel or handle like one. Barrel heavy and very much on the wrong side of 8 pounds for Jaeger. Balanced and felt more like a barrel heavy full stock plains rifle. Only had chance to shoot conicals out of it and found it accurate. Believe the the straight vs swamped barrel was the real killer in how it handled. This from a guy who loves his bored out to 58 caliber short barreled T/Cs.
Just a follow-up to our last conversation on Pedersoli's Jager... When Sunday evening came on GB I prayed that someone would tackle it from under me. IT WORKED!! Someone purchased it for $1,485!!

Which kit do you believe represents the best value?
 
All the Jaeger ‘kits’ I have seen for some time now would better be called parts sets with as cast components, except maybe for the trigger and lock, call it a blank canvas. Definitely not a snap together. Maybe try Chambers or Pecatonica. I don’t believe TOW currently shows a Jaeger kit. Seems many of the kits include components from the same sources.
 
Back
Top