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A "Tight" Load

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swampy11

32 Cal.
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
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I am a newbie to muzzleloading, so let me pick the collective brainpower of the group. I have read/been told that a "tight" load would improve accuracy, meaning ball size and patch. Then again, I have read that powder load is the main determinant for accuracy. I have inherited a homemade .45 percussion rifle and was told to start with a .440 ball, a .010 shooting patch, 70gn of 3xf powder and work from there. Depending on my shooting trials this weekend, how would I "tighten" the load? Would I increase the ball size, patch size or the powder charge?
Thanks in advance
`swamp
 
Do you think I should return the upopened box of .440 balls for the .445 or keep what I have? I have opend by .010 shooting patches so I can't return them.
Thanks
`swamp
 
I use .440 ball with a .018 patch and do pretty well. If .018 patch is easy to start and load then going up to a .445 ball with a .010 or .015 patch might be what you need.
 
While you are messing around with the ball and patch, looking for that ever elusive "perfect load" ::, be sure that, as you go up or down with your powder, take the time to load up your measure the same way each time. What I mean is, if you're going to tap and settle the powder then use the same number of taps. If you're not going to tap, that's fine too, just don't do it once in awhile. :shake:
Either way consistancy is the key, even when you're changing the loads, do it the same way everytime. :imo:

Larry
 
If you want to try something with the .010 patch, go with .451 ball. This will make a very snug fitting load and may take a little convincing to get started down the snout. I've used this combo in my Tenn. with a Green Mtn. barrel and they shot very accuratly. My favorite target load, however, is the .440 ball and a .020 patch. Loads nicely and still gives great accuracy. :m2c:
 
I would not return them.

Heck, you should burn up 200 rounds to break the bore in before you begin shooting for accuracy or adjusting the sights more than to get registered on paper (especially fixed sights that require filing to raise the point of impact).

Your best load may be a 0.440" ball and a 0.015" patch, instead of a 0.445" ball and an 0.010" patch. Every rifle is different. The tightest might not be the most accurate overall. Experiment.

I always try to find the most accurate convenient load. So I don't have to futz with a short starter, liquid lubes or worry about snapping my wood rammer out in the woods.

Shooting is supposed to be fun!
 
70 grain of FFF is a pretty good load for a .45 too. I would start at about 30 and go up from there. You are going to find you will end up with a squirrel load, a target load and a deer load. All could be different and yet quite accurate. A good rule of thumb is to start a ball with your patch material and push it in with your thumb until the ball is barely inside the barrel. You should be able to just barely do it or not do it. That is a tight load. Also go to a store and buy some ciragette papers for rolling your own. You can add those to under the ball to increase the thickness of your patch material. As you accuracy inp :thumbsup:roves you will be able to tell how thick a patch you really need.
 
Stumpkiller-
Speaking of patches, what is the main difference between shooting patches lubed with oil vs. wonder lube?
Advantages/disadvantages?
Thanks
`swamp
 
I agree with Stumpkiller's beginning ball/patch recommendations because those are the most popular and common combinations. I would also keep the patches for future use and load development.
I would highly recommend patches with TC Bore Butter or Wonderlub over oiled patches which may reportedly cause a tar like residue to form in your barrel. I usually buy dry patches and rub the Wonderlub with thin gloves on until it's absorbed and store in a ziplock. Hand warmth melts it in. Others report that they use heat (or microwave) to melt it and then let it soak in to each patch. Using a tube of Bore Butter, you can control the amount of lub placed on each patch, and I found that it's really effective in keeping the fouling soft and the barrel cleaner for many more accurate shots, depending on the type and amount of powder being loaded of course. I rate the factory Wonder lubed patches highly as well. :imo:
 
Stumpkiller-
Speaking of patches, what is the main difference between shooting patches lubed with oil vs. wonder lube?
Advantages/disadvantages?
Thanks
`swamp

The main difference is the nature of the oils and the way they are carried. Some oils have a tendency to bead up on metal, so they need a "carrier" to emulsify them and smear across surfaces. Penetrating oils, like Rem-Oil & sewing machine oil, have esters from the petrolium process that do it, but the downside is that those products can leave tar in the barrel as a byproduct of firing.

20 some years ago "Wonder Lube" was a different formulation (was white and seemed to have tallow in it) and I didn't like it a bit. Then I got a tube of T/C's Bore Butter and found it was much better. I used Natural Lube Plus for several years and liked it, but didn't like the yellow fingers, grease on everything, and on my clothes from where I carried pre-patched balls in loading blocks.

Do a search on "Lube Wars", "Moose Snot" and "Moose Milk" for background and formulas. I began a quest for a less messy home brew that would give me multiple shots without wiping.

Cut to the chase:

Thicker grease lubes bind the oils in waxes that are exposed in loading and firing. Beeswax melts away to become a great lube - it's what I use in the hinge of ball moulds. Easy to use if you carry a small tin of the lube, can be smeared on patches and loaded in blocks ahead of time and stay pretty stable when exposed to air. Some better than others. Natural Lube seems to evaporate off a bit and become more wax-like, but it still works. These also are good for protecting the bore in storage. Downside: waxy lubes can cause stringing in some rifles, I suspect due to build-up and inconsistant amounts on each patch and from patch-to-patch.

Liquid lube with oil is also messy, but cleans the bore with ever ball loaded. The water and alcohol help as much as the oil in keeping the fouling soft and squeegying it out of the grooves. They seem to be easier to gain consistancy of lube. Disadvantage: too much will leach into the powder and "kill" it so it burns slow or not at all. Not the best choice for loading blocks.

My latest trend: cotton patching twice dipped in moose milk and allowed to dry between while lying down on wax paper. Advantage: the castor oil/murphy's oil/witchhazel oils are less volitile than some and soak into the weave after the alcohol and water dissipate. Gives a very consistant, light application of lube and seems to produce the best accuracy. Not messy to handle, no bottles or tins to fumble with when shooting, stay ready indefinately in a loading block (I've used two-month old pre-patched blocks as a test). I carry a six-foot strip in a waxed deerskin bag in my hunting pouch. Disadvantage: less fouling softening ability, so these require a spit-wipe every five shots or so. Or, adding a drop or two of moose milk when loading lets me shoot without the need to wipe.

Never used a pre-lubed commercial patch, so I don't know how these compare. I'm not one of those who advocate "seasoning" a bore with lube. I want it clean when I start and cleaned and oiled when I put the gun away. I run an alcohol patch before I shoot and wipe with a lubed patch to coat the bore before I load for the day's shooting. When I'm done I scrub with hot soapy water until I get patches that come out looking like they went in, then I dry the bore and use a protecting oil (Rem-oil or Sheath).

I've been playing around with bear oil, but it is not common and I got some rust in the bore so it is not the Grand Unification Lube & Protectant that I was hoping for. I didn't find any advantage over moose milk, but it is an authentic and accurate lube. Probably if I slobbered it on thicker and left a "seasoned" bore it would work. Still work to do before I decide.
 
back to the .45....every barrel is different, so you have to experiment. My guess is, however, with that thin patch and 70 gr fffg you might get burned out patches. My own old Green River barreled .45 used to use .015 patches, .445 ball and 65 gr fffg for an accurate deer load. But it was h**l to load, too tight, and absolutley needed swabbing between shots to reload. Recently for an informal match I decided to try .440 balls and 50 grs fffg. Voila! easy to reload and plenty accurate (I won the two match events). Patches are pretty cheap, I'd get some .015 or .018 material and try it with the .440s. Reduce your load to 50 grs fffg and work up from there. Some barrels really like the .445s, but .010 patches are pretty thin IMHO.

P.S. note, I did not mention lubes...spit works as well as any commercial or homemade lubes, so I wonder if lube is the key part of all this...?
 
Swampy, this was how I found my patch/bullet combo. Find some pattern paper ( it is .001 thick ) and take your .010 patch ,cut the pattern paper into ,lets say 2" squares now place the a 2" square piece of pattern pater between the cloth and the ball making sure the paper is inside load the ball and shoot it . Keep increasing the paper until your groups get tight ,be sure to take notice on how tight the ball is getting as you load it. You can adjust the combo until you have hit the right combo. Keep up on how many
pieces of paper you have used then just add up the numbers and then find the patch material you will need if you can't find the right thickness of material then you will need to adjust the ball diameter.

The Welshman :results: :front:
 
Stumpkiller et al
I am going to my first shoot this weekend and want to take only one combination of ball & patch. Here are by choices:

ball & patch
.440+.010
.440+.015
.445+.010
.445+.015
Should a .018 patch be considered?

I want a tight and accurate load without having to use a jack-hammer to seat the charge. It appears from reading many posts on the board that a .445+.015 combo seems to be the first choice for a .45 percussion rifle. What is the collective verdict?
Thanks
`swamp
 
Should a .018 patch be considered?

I want a tight and accurate load without having to use a jack-hammer to seat the charge. It appears from reading many posts on the board that a .445+.015 combo seems to be the first choice for a .45 percussion rifle. What is the collective verdict?
Thanks
`swamp

You should consider a pillow ticking patch, if for no other reason, because the ticking is a tough fabric and works very well, usually much better than the purchased, precut .010 & .015 patches. Pillow ticking is very easy to find and generally runs between .015-.018 in thickness.

Buy it in bulk, cut your own patches and mix your own lube and you can save quite a bit of money. This is very easy to do, even for a beginner. I would suggest Stumpy's moosemilk for your homemade lube. It performs as well as, or better, than any commercial lube I have tried. Great stuff!
 
Swampy11,
It appears to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you haven't shot any of those loads? It would be immpossible to tell you which load will be best due to the variations in bores, rifling ect. from one rifle to the next. Even if the make and models are the same, they still exhibit a preference for one combo or another. The only way to know for sure is to shoot each loads and record what your gun prefers.

Larry
 
You're right. I haven't shot any of these loads, but I am asking for a good starting point. From your experience, which combo would you start with?
Thanks
`swamp
 
Swampy, don't get caught up in the "best load" race. It is a slow process to figure it out. You have a ball/patch combination. Start with that. I would suggest 30-40gr fffg to start. Work up or down from that starting load but don't get caried away. When you have shot your rifle enough to find its best load with your current ball/patch combo, then change patches. It that helps, change balls. It that helps, change powder charge. Only change 1 thing at a time from your first "good" load. Keep an accurate account of what your results with each load are. As stated before, you should end up with 3 good loads: A light one for small game, a little heavier load for targets and a stout load for deer. Example: MY .45 uses .440RB and .015 patches for all loads. Light load is 30gr fffg. Target load is 40gr fffg. Deer load is 70gr fffg. All using same ball/patch combo. Good luck.
 
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