A Wheellock - Lock

[Rudyard]

I was in contact with Mr Tromner he expressed interest in a matchlock piece a snap matchlock 'After" Hans Morl. So I made one in NZ took it to UK got it proofed .But couldn't get any response .Oddly But I took it back to the US and sold it there in Ohio must agree he did know his stuff .
Rudyard .

 

[TobJohn]

After obsessing over the lock plate shape way too much, I realized that they curve up probably to allow a more comfortable handgrip:
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Carbines have less stock bulk above the lock, as well as a lock (possibly) further forward in relation to the trigger, which could be why they do not need the bottom curved up as much :

 

[TobJohn]

I have finally found a convincing complete gun with an almost identical lock:

Despite my earlier hypothesis, after looking through some online museum collections, there is a really good chance the more curved and tapered lockplate is simply the style in the last 2 or so decades of the 16th century.

 

[VicN]

Some nice wheellocks displayed here, seeing the lock with two dogs I thought this one with a combination of wheellock and matchlock might be of interest

 

[TobJohn]

Rick,

Have you ever had someone try and interpret this mark here:

And this possible mark here:

 

[TobJohn]

 

[TobJohn]

I am currently borrowing Rick’s lock to take measurements and try and make some sort of diagram, but since borrowing it, one came up for auction that I could not pass on.

I was planning on making a more substantial comparison this week, but work has been busy and I am going out of town this weekend. Hopefully, I can have a large post up next week, with better pictures (not using fake wood veneer as a backdrop for patinaed metal).

In the meantime, notice that despite different wheel retainers and slight size differences, they have almost the exact same decoration in the swirls on the dogs and springs. The dogs are almost identical, as well.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Cool! The large diamond-shaped lock plates signify them as some of the earliest wheellocks, circa 1580 to 1600, probably Germanic.

 

[TobJohn]

Cool! The large diamond-shaped lock plates signify them as some of the earliest wheellocks, circa 1580 to 1600, probably Germanic.

I concur, with a caveat.

Art, Arms, And Armor: An International Anthology Volume 1, makes the same claim. The book mentions that the locks were often made in Germany for the Italian market to put on guns. Brescia had an equally extensive lock making industry at the same time, so I do question how much of it is foreign import. The book is also a little biased against Italian wheellock development, which your pan grinding article had a good refutation. More research to be done!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

The book is also a little biased against Italian wheellock development, which your pan grinding article had a good refutation.

Bias? Yes, but also recall that famous quote that goes something like this, "History is always written from the perspective (bias?) of the WINNER!"

 

[TobJohn]

Bias? Yes, but also recall that famous quote that goes something like this, "History is always written from the perspective (bias?) of the WINNER!"

That quote “triggers” my inner historian so much. A good response I’ve seen to it is “history is written by those that write history”.

 

[rickystl]

Posts #25 and #26:

Michael tried years ago. But they were just too faint.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Cool! The large diamond-shaped lock plates signify them as some of the earliest wheellocks, circa 1580 to 1600, probably Germanic.

Hi Flint

That's the date range Michael Tommer gave my lock years ago. The similarities of both lock makes one guess that both might have been made in the same shop at near the same time frame. Based on other past auctions, it seems the double-pawl locks were in vogue (at least in Italy) during this time. They do occasionally come up for sale.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

Hi Flint

That's the date range Michael Tommer gave my lock years ago. The similarities of both lock makes one guess that both might have been made in the same shop at near the same time frame. Based on other past auctions, it seems the double-pawl locks were in vogue (at least in Italy) during this time. They do occasionally come up for sale.

Rick

Some of the information I have been able to find is that while locks may have been made outside of Italy for the Italian market, the Italians preferred not having safeties on their lock and the double dog (as you mention) was much more more common on theirs. I need to double check which one is which, but the proof marks on the outside vs inside the lock are supposedly a way to tell German from Italian.

 

[wulf1928]

Pyrite tends to crumble versus slower wear like a flint. You never know if you're going to get of 2 shots or 12 with one pyrite. So my guess is the second pawl is for this reason as you surmise. Looks really strange doesn't it.

Rick

I faced that problem when I first started making......so instead of pyrite I use 'fire sticks'. They don't wear out, give enough sparks the light
powder.... and not expensive, don't break.....and what all else.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Personally, I find they wear or dull down wheels … so I don’t recommend fire steels anymore … at least from my experiential archeology with 5 wheellocks, 2 being originals.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

I faced that problem when I first started making......so instead of pyrite I use 'fire sticks'. They don't wear out, give enough sparks the light
powder.... and not expensive, don't break.....and what all else.

Listen to Flint62Smoothie!

 

[Rudyard]

It seems all down to getting the right pyrites .useless for clay shooting but well enoght for a hunting one shot chance .Rudyards view

 

[wulf1928]

Personally, I find they wear or dull down wheels … so I don’t recommend fire steels anymore … at least from my experiential archeology with 5 wheellocks, 2 being originals.

All my wheels were hardened.

 

[wulf1928]

Pyrite tends to crumble versus slower wear like a flint. You never know if you're going to get of 2 shots or 12 with one pyrite. So my guess is the second pawl is for this reason as you surmise. Looks really strange doesn't it.

Rick

My wheels are hardened and I can use fire sticks......they last very long and cause no damage to the wheel.