Accuracy help. Traditions longrifle

[Hoosier96]

Hello all me again. Some of you probably saw my previous post about my traditions kentucky long rifle. Now that i got it shooting fast and reliably i decided to test the accuracy. To say im confused is a understatement.

as you can see its all over the board. All shots where takin at 25 yards. On a rest. The barrel was swabbed once between each shot. However after i switched to 70 grains this is where i really got confused. After i fired 70#1 i swabbed the barrel and fired 70#2. Than i didn't swab the barrel and fired 70#3. Good hit. Swabbed the barrel fired 70#4 and it went way high. Reloaded with out swabbing and fired 70#5. Now i get that they are called flintchlocks for a reason. But i shot it sunday also and had similar results. First shot from a clean barrel is accurate, every shot after hits very far to the right. But i skip swabbing the barrel it seems to group better. Am i doing something wrong? Is it the gun? I have no idea at this point. Im not trying to sound like a braggert but im a pretty darn good shot. Ive been hunting and shooting competitively since i was a kid, why this thing is all over God's green earth has me stumped. My TC hawken is a tack driver swabbed barrel or not, but this thing? I've spent a lot of time lately on the internet and YouTube and from what i gathered everyone that has bought this particular rifle likes it. Not a tack driver. But accurate enough to take a deer at 100 yards. I wouldnt shoot past 50 at this point. Im shooting 145 grain round balls on a .018 pre lubricated patch. Any and all help is appreciated guys, you've been great help and im looking forward to more wisdom. Thanks.

P.S if it helps i clean the barrel spotless with boiling hot water than a few patches of tc number 13 cleaner than run multiple dry patches. I than run a patch soaked in rem gun oil before puting in a fire proof save with dehumidifier. Before shooting i run a couple patches of alcohol down the barrel followed by dry patches.

 

[Mulebrain]

What is the caliber, and what size ball?

 

[deermanok]

My Traditions Tennessee rifle was shooting kinda like that. Mine is a 50 caliber. I was using 70 grains of 3f Old Ensyford under a .490 ball. Tried different patch thickness but accuracy didn't change much until I got some .495 round balls.
Big difference for me. Now I am getting very tight groups every time.

 

[Grenadier1758]

At 145 grains, the ball is 0.455. @Hoosier96, are you sure that your ball is 145 grains? A 45 caliber 0.440 ball should weigh 127 grains and a 0.445 ball would weigh 135 grains.

I am not a fan of pre-lubricated patches. These can deteriorate over time and that is my first thought as to the accuracy issue. I use a 0.017" cotton drill patch that I lubricate just before I load the patch and ball and cut at the muzzle.

Could your sights be loose? I have had accuracy issues only to find that my sights were moving in the dove tails.

What is different from your T/C Hawken "tack driver"?

 

[rafterob]

If it is a .50 caliber that 70 grain load is probably about right. I have found 65-75 to provide the best accuracy and grouping. the flyers on the right are most likely you pulling if you are new to flinters.
The key is to focus on the sights and the target and slowly squeeze the trigger. Practice that and you will find you don't even notice the pan igniting. Keep your loading consistent. Some barrels fire best after a fouling shot, do not swab until necessary. Some shoot best as a clean barrel and require swabbing between shots. I am not a swab between shots kinda guy. Depending on ambient weather conditions it may be 10 shots or 30 before I find it necessary to swab.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Look, I'll bang my head on the wall again!

Get that swabbing apparatus and throw it in a safe direction as far as you can!
Now, go get some beeswax, coconut fat or beef dripping, anything like that. Candlewax even. Melt it down and add olive oil until you are happy with the consistency.

Your barrel needs two things. A bloody good polishing and a bloody good lubricant that lasts the whole journey down the barrel and the whole journey out again.
When you've tested after polishing and using proper appropriate lube and there is still an issue we will move onto the gun.

There is no point trying this ball that ball, this patch that patch. This powder that powder until there is at least some attempt from a rifle to NOT throw flyers!

 

[mooman76]

Look at your fired patches. That will tell you allot. Also don't think because one gun works a certain way, they all will. Your gun isn't broken in yet and that could be allot of it. Your fired patches should look good enough to use again.

 

[Hoosier96]

At 145 grains, the ball is 0.455. @Hoosier96, are you sure that your ball is 145 grains? A 45 caliber 0.440 ball should weigh 127 grains and a 0.445 ball would weigh 135 grains.

I am not a fan of pre-lubricated patches. These can deteriorate over time and that is my first thought as to the accuracy issue. I use a 0.017" cotton drill patch that I lubricate just before I load the patch and ball and cut at the muzzle.

Could your sights be loose? I have had accuracy issues only to find that my sights were moving in the dove tails.

What is different from your T/C Hawken "tack driver"?

Sights are nice and tight. Ill look at the weight when i get home i waa trying to go off memory. Its a .490 caliber ball. My tc hawken groups great all day long with no issues using the same patch and balls but a hotter charge. And its only 1:44 twist so in theory it should be worse?

 

[Hoosier96]

Look at your fired patches. That will tell you allot. Also don't think because one gun works a certain way, they all will. Your gun isn't broken in yet and that could be allot of it. Your fired patches should look good enough to use again.

Fired patches look text book perfect

 

[Hoosier96]

Look, I'll bang my head on the wall again!

Get that swabbing apparatus and throw it in a safe direction as far as you can!
Now, go get some beeswax, coconut fat or beef dripping, anything like that. Candlewax even. Melt it down and add olive oil until you are happy with the consistency.

Your barrel needs two things. A bloody good polishing and a bloody good lubricant that lasts the whole journey down the barrel and the whole journey out again.
When you've tested after polishing and using proper appropriate lube and there is still an issue we will move onto the gun.

There is no point trying this ball that ball, this patch that patch. This powder that powder until there is at least some attempt from a rifle to NOT throw flyers!

Are you referring to using that as patch lube or to season the barrel with? Ive heard some guys use mink oil, any thoughts on that?

 

[Hoosier96]

My Traditions Tennessee rifle was shooting kinda like that. Mine is a 50 caliber. I was using 70 grains of 3f Old Ensyford under a .490 ball. Tried different patch thickness but accuracy didn't change much until I got some .495 round balls.
Big difference for me. Now I am getting very tight groups every time.

I considered going up a ball size. Do you find them much more difficult to reload in a hunting situation?

 

[Hoosier96]

What is the caliber, and what size ball?

.50 cal. Shooting a .490 ball

 

[Hoosier96]

If it is a .50 caliber that 70 grain load is probably about right. I have found 65-75 to provide the best accuracy and grouping. the flyers on the right are most likely you pulling if you are new to flinters.
The key is to focus on the sights and the target and slowly squeeze the trigger. Practice that and you will find you don't even notice the pan igniting. Keep your loading consistent. Some barrels fire best after a fouling shot, do not swab until necessary. Some shoot best as a clean barrel and require swabbing between shots. I am not a swab between shots kinda guy. Depending on ambient weather conditions it may be 10 shots or 30 before I find it necessary to swab.

Yeah i think im done swabbing unless i have too. No such thing as squeezing the trigger on this, once you pull that set trigger if you look at the gun wrong she goes off! One heck of a hair trigger i do love that about it.

 

[deermanok]

I considered going up a ball size. Do you find them much more difficult to reload in a hunting situation?

I haven't hunted with the setup yet.
I'm using a .010 Oxyoke patch and at the range, I found no difficulty in reloading a second or third shot.

 

[Maven]

Hello all me again. Some of you probably saw my previous post about my traditions kentucky long rifle. Now that i got it shooting fast and reliably i decided to test the accuracy. To say im confused is a understatement. View attachment 96511as you can see its all over the board. All shots where takin at 25 yards. On a rest. The barrel was swabbed once between each shot. However after i switched to 70 grains this is where i really got confused. After i fired 70#1 i swabbed the barrel and fired 70#2. Than i didn't swab the barrel and fired 70#3. Good hit. Swabbed the barrel fired 70#4 and it went way high. Reloaded with out swabbing and fired 70#5. Now i get that they are called flintchlocks for a reason. But i shot it sunday also and had similar results. First shot from a clean barrel is accurate, every shot after hits very far to the right. But i skip swabbing the barrel it seems to group better. Am i doing something wrong? Is it the gun? I have no idea at this point. Im not trying to sound like a braggert but im a pretty darn good shot. Ive been hunting and shooting competitively since i was a kid, why this thing is all over God's green earth has me stumped. My TC hawken is a tack driver swabbed barrel or not, but this thing? I've spent a lot of time lately on the internet and YouTube and from what i gathered everyone that has bought this particular rifle likes it. Not a tack driver. But accurate enough to take a deer at 100 yards. I wouldnt shoot past 50 at this point. Im shooting 145 grain round balls on a .018 pre lubricated patch. Any and all help is appreciated guys, you've been great help and im looking forward to more wisdom. Thanks.

P.S if it helps i clean the barrel spotless with boiling hot water than a few patches of tc number 13 cleaner than run multiple dry patches. I than run a patch soaked in rem gun oil before puting in a fire proof save with dehumidifier. Before shooting i run a couple patches of alcohol down the barrel followed by dry patches.

 

[Maven]

It almost sounds like your sights are loose or the bbl. is binding in the stock once it expands from the heat of firing. Also, I'd recommend an oiled square of green scotchbrite on a smaller cleaning jag (with a muzzle protector on your ramrod) to polish the roughness out of the bbl. Lastly, take some 320 grit sandpaper on the ball of your thumb and rotate it on the muzzle crown to remove any dings or burrs there.

Btw, for hunting purposes, a grease lube such as the one Britsmoothy recommended will work, but for range testing a wet patch (spit, moose milk, etc.) works so well you won't need to swab after each shot. (I use 1 part Ballistol to 6 -7 parts water and don't need to swab after every shot.) Hope this helps you out!

 

[Flintlock]

If it won't shoot at 25 yards it might print two foot groups at 100yds. Try plain old olive oil for patch lube, try putting a pinch of wasp nest on top of paper before the patch. Are you shooting from a solid bench. If possible let someone else try it and see what happens.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Are you referring to using that as patch lube or to season the barrel with? Ive heard some guys use mink oil, any thoughts on that?

Patch lube, by default it will coat the bore. Some call it seasoning but I don't. I call it common sense.
All BPMC shooters know that if their rifles muzzle does not have a wet star of lubricant at the muzzle there is not enough lube on or behind the bullet. Rarely does accuracy improve until enough lube is present.

 

[Hoosier96]

It almost sounds like your sights are loose or the bbl. is binding in the stock once it expands from the heat of firing. Also, I'd recommend an oiled square of green scotchbrite on a smaller cleaning jag (with a muzzle protector on your ramrod) to polish the roughness out of the bbl. Lastly, take some 320 grit sandpaper on the ball of your thumb and rotate it on the muzzle crown to remove any dings or burrs there.

Btw, for hunting purposes, a grease lube such as the one Britsmoothy recommended will work, but for range testing a wet patch (spit, moose milk, etc.) works so well you won't need to swab after each shot. (I use 1 part Ballistol to 6 -7 parts water and don't need to swab after every shot.) Hope this helps you out!

Ok, thanks!

 

[Hoosier96]

I borrowed a camera from work we use to look inside tight places, from what i can see the inside of the barrel has no rough or jagged spots. Also i checked my box of round balls and it says 175 grains?