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Accuracy on Production Flintlocks?

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LFC

40 Cal.
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
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I'm curious to learn what the conventional wisdom is on the forum about what off-the-shelf production flintlocks are most accurate.

I'm interested in knowing this for "Hawken"-style guns, as well as more generally.

I'm hearing lots and lots of favorable reviews of Lyman's Great Plains rifle. Do y'all think that this is generally more accurate than the others on offer--Traditions, Cabela's, CVA, Pedersoli?

Yeah, I know--it'll vary from individual rifle to individual rifle--but I figure the general rule (if there is one) will steer me in the right basic direction.
 
So many factors involved- it will be hard to make a conclusion. Sights, for one thing, are going to be different. Some may fare better with large ball/thin patch combos than others, etc. All will probably shoot into 5" at 100 yards with proper load workup.
 
I can only speak for Lyman since that's all I own but their out of the box accuracy is excellent with standard load workups. After the barrel is broken in accuracy gets even better. My GPR's are sub 2 inch shooters at 50 yards and sub 4 inch shooters at 100 yards. That is with the supplied semi-buckhorn sights.

HD
 
If its a production you will buy---Lyman for sure is a great gun for the $$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
 
As another alternative, I have a number of TC Hawken Flintlocks...they're all I shoot and hunt with year round...excellent reliability and accuracy...short of using them in competition TCs standard 1:48" barrels shoot PRBs very well, and their 1:66" round ball barrels even tighter.

Another big benefit I've found from using TC Hawkens is that GM makes a series of "drop-in" barrels for the TC Hawken which have allowed me to get extra caliber Flint barrels that TC doesn't offer:

.40cal round ball
.58cal round ball
.54cal/.28ga smoothbore
.62cal/.20ga smoothbore

Wouldn't part with any of them...whatever you get, enjoy!
 
I have a T/C Hawken's Flintlock in .54 cal. that I only shoot Roundballs.
My load is 110 gr. Goex FF with a .015 patch and using a moose milk that I make myself..

It shoots 1 1/2 - 2" groups at 50 yards all day...

492689.JPG
 
No one has added this yet so I will since it was the hang up I had when I started with a 1X48 CVA Pa flinter (and had never shot a flintlock ever-but 40 or more cap ones) is the hang time from pulling the trigger to when it goes off, it took some time getting used to that, then the guys here got me smartened up enough to get the rifle to gong off about everytime and doing it in ?1000th of a second, anyway just something to add to the accuracy part, you'll find both Lyman and T/Cs to be great for Not haveing the troubles I did but the gun was given to me new so :surrender: learn as you go I guess. Fred :hatsoff:
 
Aside from the fact that a Lyman Trade Rifle retails for less than half the price of a T/C hawken and the Great Plains Rifle about 2/3 the price of a T/C you often hear that the availability of Green Mountain drop in barrels is a great advantage to the T/C. Now just ask yourself, if the T/C barrels are so good why are so many people replacing them with GMs?
I don't care much for flint locks on a Hawken style rifle, they just don't look right to me, but if that doesn't bother you I would echo the comment that the Lyman is a bargain on today's market and most people find the accuracy OK without having to invest in a replacement barrel.
 
only have 2 flintlocks and they are:
traditions kentucky .50 that will hold a steady 1 1/2" groups @ 100.
cva big bore mountain rifle in .54 thats shooting 2" groups with one load and 3 1/2" with another load.
 
i just got done rewriteing history in the hamilton - burr duel we had here on the forum with my T/C hawken with a 1/48" barrel that can't shoot PRB very good worth a darn, all my shots were under an inch at 50 yards :v ...........bob
 
That steady 1 1/2" at 100 yds. with 1/2" balls is very tight. How many shots? Normal is 5 shot groups. That would be super out standing with a Pre. 64 Mdl. 70 scoped .458. :thumbsup:
 
i do 3 shot groups. The other day i took 2 shots from my deer creek " percussion" and walked away shaking my head due to an 1 1/2"group. I dont swab between shots, i like to see where my first is, seeing how thats the shot that counts the most,and then shoot a 2nd and 3ed. I know the traditions very well and its a pig and wants 110 grains fffg to do 1 1/2" groups. With 90 or even a 100 it will do a 2" group. That extra 10 grains is what it likes. Kills my boney shoulder :haha:

Heres the deer creek .45 percussion @ 100 yards with a .440 PRB and 60 grains triple 7. I use 225 gn powerbelts for hunting.
100_3248.jpg
[/img]
And below is the traditions shooting from last fall after i sighted in with 110 gn's fffg goex and wanted to see how high it would shoot @ 50 yards. The rest of the shots were my bunny wabbit loads. Total of 7 shots in that hole. That i believe was 50grains fffg goex.
100_2210.jpg
[/img]

This was waiting on the ground when the smoke cleared. Good thing i took those 2 shots @ 50 yards earlier in the season or else i more than likely would have missed my 40 yard target that evening.
100_2235.jpg
[/img]
 
Fred/FW: You say you got advice that helped you cut your lock time significantly. What'd you do?
 
I have owned most of the production guns over the years and have found most to be comparable in accuract once you find the right load, which may be light for some hunting situations, over all I would go with the LGP or the TC Hawken as the most accurate overall, production guns I have shot which incudes old Navy Arms, armi Sports, Kentuckians, and several others made back in the 70's and 80's.
 
Nope, sneeked over to unit 35 right outside of a small town called Burns. Lots of BLM and i got really darn lucky with this one. The huge ones are deep in the mountains but i havnt found them yet.
 
Accuracy in any rifle depends almost solely on the condition of the barrel. If the barrel is right, its going to shoot. Most of the low priced commercial guns have barrels made in Italy or Spain, often by the same companies. Lyman, and Cabela and Dixie have the guns made at the same plants. The barrels are pretty much alike.

You pay more for a barrel made over in the USA because of wage differences, and the fact that US barrel makers Have to make a better barrel to compete for the foreign competition. Small producers offer barrels that have been lapped and choked at a premium price to pay for the extra labor to do this. If you don't know how to do that yourself, you are way ahead paying them to do it for you. Yes, it does make a more accurate barrel.

A retired barrel maker indicates he uses air gauges to check his barrels, ( and those he buys from other makers now,) but he also has some glass rods about 1 foot long that were made to bore dimensions. You can have a barrel that has perfect air gauge dimensions, but is not straight. The glass rods are used to make sure the bore is straight.

A few barrel makers offer back bored barrels, where the rifle is choked a few thousands of an inch over the entire length of the barrel. This is now fairly common on modern breechloading shotgun barrels for the clay target shooters, and the quality of the patterns fired from these new barrels justifies the extra money paid to get them. In MLs, YOu can hand lap the bores of any barrel you buy, and achieve similar results. As far as straightening a barrel however, that is beyond most of our abilities. Because the barrel is everything to accuracy, spend your money on a good one.

Next to the barrel, good bedding of the barrel to the stock is also important. The traditional way of bedding a barrel is with paper shims glued to the channel in the stock. Today, we use epoxy resins, and both improve the bedding,and strengthen the stock. There are those who prefer to " free float" a barrel just as is done with modern barrels, both for target guns, and now for hunting guns. Others think that have good contact between the barrel and the stock the full length of the stock is what makes for accurate shooting. There are accurate rifles made both ways. Your choice on this issue.

Of course, you need good sights, the tang of the breechplug needs to also be bedded properly, and either the rings that hold the barrel to the stock, or the pins or keys must fit properly to get good accuracy. i saw a new rifle, years ago, that managed to warp the stock over the winter, and began spreading balls all over the target. One of the barrel keys was forcibly removed, and the gun went back to being an absolute tack driver, both off the bench, and off-hand. It was a foreign made barrel, but the problem was that the wood used in the stock was green, and when it dried, BOY did it MOVE! The owner later filled in the key slots in the forestock, and then cut new ones, and moved his escutcheons. You had to have the repair pointed out to you to see it.
 
Ya I dont care for the Hawken none full stock in flint myself but!! I was just trying to answer what he asked not what I thought of this or that. Now just ask yourself, if the T/C barrels are so good why are so many people replacing them with GMs? to shoot PRBs myself....
Right now Ive got a Rengade thanks to Pork Chop off the classfieds, and a GM 58, as well as a T/C to GM tang, along with most the parts to make a fullstock flintlock, really just need the stock and I'm into it for under 300 really easy, more like 250 and havent sold off any of the old parts. But thats me I was just trying to help the "Q" along. Fred :hatsoff:
 
If ya ran back over all the last 6 months on here you'll find a little bit of help for everything, not ever haveing shot a flintlock I didnt know about the dont put a pile of 4f in or you get a VERY slow burn and then the thing goes off (and remember this was a built for one store CVA) polishing parts , found a spot the hammer was rubbing the wood, the real help came from the guy right above me, my lock was way out of line with the flash hole 1/2 the hole was covered up so I ground down the part holding your 4f charge so it was below the hole,and made the hole a small bit bigger, and getting the right flint in line to hit the right part at the right spot...ect Dont know how much you know about flintlocks so Im useing words that I think anyone could figure out, like I didnt know what a frizzen was even when I started trying to shoot this thing,now thanks to flints from a add you'll find in the classfieds or maybe not anymore?? it goes off so fast I dont have time to mess it up! :rotf: One thing for sure a CVA made 50 cal 45X1 twist will shoot PRBs real well. So hope you find some help in all that if not just ask someone will have what you need to read. :) Fred :hatsoff:
 
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