Accuracy

O.K. Maxi needs some input here.
Now you guys and gals listen up. There have been some people on these boards whats been a terrible influence on me.
I used to shoot T/C cappers 'till in-lines came out. Then I got GOOFY and sold the cappers and went for pellets, condom bullets, scopes, recoil pads, fake powder, shotgun primers and them awful in-lines. I'd been deceived and led down an awful road leaving tradtion behind.
Well those terrible influences have changed my sinful ways and I went back to T/C cappers, Lyman roundballers, and even a flinter.
I associated with characters like rollingb, sse, tacks, birddog6 and got completely into period keerect flintlocks.
Now I come to this site and read about smoothbores and I can see what's commin'. I'm ruined. :bull:
O.K. just how accurate are your smoothies, what are they, what are your loads, do you shoot shot and ball?
DETAILS, I need DETAILS. The more info the better.
P.S. I own a T/C 12 ga., does that count? ::
I just know you terrible smoothie people are gonna get me into another gun huh? :curse:

 

[Flintshooter in Indiana]

I've got a Jackie Brown 58 cal Carolina smoothbore and am building a 54 early VA smooth rifle. Bought the parts from Tip Curtis at Friendship. Chambers round face colonial lock, Colerain swamped smoothbore barrel, single trigger and it's iron mounted. Tryin' my hand at some decorative carving. Ain't turnin' out too bad as of yet. Takin' my time. I shoot 65grs fffg with .020 patch, .562 ball in the 58. That's out to about 60-70 yds. Shoots particularly well after I had the barrel bent. (That's another story). I've seen a lot of smoothbore shooters that'll outshoot rifle shooters, and that's no :bull:. They'll shoot if'n you can hold 'em where you want to hit. Now I wouldn't try a 150 yd shot with one, but out to 100 you could bust a deer with one. I've killed several with mine. Just need to fine tune 'er to the range your gonna shoot at. Ain't never shot pellets with mine. Don't know what it'll do with that. All I can say is get one and let 'er rip. Explain to the wife later, if'n you got one. :winking: They're a lot of fun.

 

Maxi, you got to contend with a couple of things. Smoothbores are accurats, they just have to be aimed. To do that you really need sights and you change the piece into a "smooth rifle" at that point and eliminate yourself from some of the smoothbore events in many matches.
We got one guy down in TN that outshoots the rifled barrel shooters every time he walks to the line with his 20ga. "smooth rifle"!

 

[Stumpkiller]

If I'm getting three inch groups at 25 yards offhand I'm in tall cotton. Occasionally I'll cloverleaf and those targets I show to people. I know a fellow who lives nearby and used to shoot smoothbore w/o sights in the Olymics (Milliquet(SP?) Match - he went to Spain a while back on the U.S. team) and if his offhand group isn't one ragged 1-1/2" hole at 50 meters (54 yds+/-) he considers it an off day. (And that's with an 'unmodified' Charleville flintlock musket with no rear sight and a big 'ol lug up front).

 

[Deadeye]

Maxi, I shoot a 20 ga. with a .600 ball, .015 patch and 75 grs. 2f. Accuracy, assuming everything else is equal, should be as good as a rifled barrel to at least 25 yds.
or a little farther. Once you get your ball load and your shot load and learn to use just the front sight, your going to love it.

 

[tg]

I have or have had smoothbores and smoothrifles in .54, .58, .62 and .72 and most would shoot a 3-4 in. group at 50 yds better shooters will probably do better, rear sights will probably tighten up the groups, most of maine have had them and they are PC for most smoothies though probably rare on a gun made strictly for fowling or military guns. You will have a choice of the military large bore muskets, trade , alliance, or gift guns typicaly French or English in the .54-.62 range, fowlers in the .20 and up cals. and the smoothrifle which is a gun usually having all the rifle furnituire, Cheek piece, grip rail rear sight, stock architecture but no rifleing. as with many guns there may be different cals. type of furniture and finish depending on gun type and time frame if being PC is a factor, for info on this aspect look to the originals and published writings about them and not the reproductions or parts suppliers, or most of the semi custom builders.

 

[musketman]

I get a one hole (.735 diameter), one shot group at 50 yards...

Now two or more shots, that's a different story... :haha:

I use a .735 round ball with a .015 patch lubed with #13 and 60 grains of FFg for paper shootin', I up the powder to 100-140 grains for huntin' (depending on my mood)...

I can usually put a 3/4 inch hole in things out to 50 yards without too much of a worry of a miss, I've been shooting the same gun for over ten years...

Once you get use to the sights, it becomes second nature...

 

Try to stay away from smoothbores... They are highly addictive and there does not seem to be a cure. If you are brave check out http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

 

[Flintshooter in Indiana]

Hey there Ghost. That wouldn't happen to be the Tennessee Whip yer talkin' about would it :: Steve Baxter?

 

That's him if my memory serves me.

 

Musketman: That .735 is a tad bigger than a 12 bore if I'm thinking right.
I do have that T/C shotgun 12 bore and have tried some .690 r/b with patching, but the accuracy was ......well, not stellar.
Got any suggestions for loads in the T/C with r/b off the top of your head?
Of course sights would help considerably.

 

[musketman]

Got any suggestions for loads in the T/C with r/b off the top of your head?

(690 Round Ball, .690", 487gr)
Improved Round Ball Slugs...
The .690 is perfect for the 12 gauge because it fits neatly inside a standard 12 gauge (plastic) shotcup. (Yes, I know, it's a shotgun sabot)

If you don't want to use plastic shotgun wads, then measure your charge and dump it in, place a hard over-the-powder card (.125" thick), then a 1/2 inch lubed fiber wad, then the .690 pumpkin ball and then a thin over-shot card...
The ball will be wedged between the wad and over-shot card, but it will still have some movement because it is not held snug because of the lack of a patch, this will effect accuracy...

I would think about a .715 ball with the fiber wad and over-shot card set-up, there is less chance of the ball bouncing down the barrel on it's way out...

You may want to think about trying a .678 round ball and a thicker patch, or even a .715 round ball and no patch...

Different patch lubes will sometimes help accuracy improve, the worst results will still get some shooting time in, and that's still fun...

 

[Deadeye]

12 bore should be around .729 and a .715 PRB should work.
works in my 12 double with cylinder bores.

 

[doc623]

Have been looking for a 12GA.
Since your's isn't acurate with the round ball how about selling it to me.
Or do you know of another/anyone else that might have one for sale?
Thanks

 

[Stumpkiller]

Old Ma Pearsall here. A T/C 12 bore barrel is much beefier that a double. I wouldn't go over a std service load of 80 gr of FFg (3 drams = 82.5 gr) in a double for any reason. And I'd proof it by letting my brother-in-law shoot it a few times before I risked face and fingers up near the gun, myself.

I use 90 grs for a round-ball in my New Englander and am happy with the accuracy. It's a pretty short barrel to be asking for too much with only a bead front and no rear sight.

 

doc: Check out www.auctionarms.com and go to blackpowder. There are almost always 3 to 400 black powder guns up for auction.
I'm not done fooling with the New Englander just yet as I hear others have had pretty good results with one.

 

Here's some original accuracy tests made in 1818 by the French, using paper ctgs. for .69cal Musket, RB, with 165gr. powders including priming.
: 100 rounds with .63" ball at a target 2 meters square (12 1/2')fired at 100yds., resulted in 88 hits, but 100 .65" balls fired at an identical target at the same range resulted in 95 hits.
:A British percussion musket of .75 cal., Model 1842, having the advantage of both front and rear sights, gave a 5 shot group size at 50 yds. of 8 1/2". This was quite excellent as the ball size was approximately .72" + rather loose paper ctg. around it to allow loading quickly no matter how much fouling was present.
Daryl

 

[squirejohn]

I have a couple of .20g smoothbores and shoot the exact same load etc. as posted by Deadeye on 2/19. I usually do ok once I get my elevation figured out and have even won a few matches. However I have gotten some real fliers that defy explanation. For example at 25 yds. I may get 4 shots in a 3" circle & the 5th shot goes off in la -la land somewhere. I mean it misses the target, and even the target backstop - about 1&1/2 to 2 ft. off the bullseye. While I don't weigh my balls I do look them over & any with holes in the sprue, wrinkle etc. go back in the lead pot. My question is - has anyone else experienced these drastic smoothbore fliers?

Thought for the day- He who laughs last, thinks slowest

 

[musketman]

I have a couple of .20g smoothbores and shoot the exact same load etc. as posted by Deadeye on 2/19. However I have gotten some real fliers that defy explanation.

squirejohn:
So, you shoot a 20 ga. with a .600 ball, .015 patch and 75 grs. 2f...

When you experienced the "FLIERS", did you load the r/b any differently?

Was the patch drier than the others?
Was the ball loaded the same way (flat up/down)?
Did you swab the barrel before the flier?

Recover and check the patch of the next flier, I think you may have gas blowing by in your ball/patch combo, resulting in a loss of pressure and velocity, end result: ball doesn't maket it to the target...

In case you don't know, the patch will be blacken on the back side (powder side) in the shape of a circle, if the gas blows by, there will be a black streak up the side of the patch to it's edge.

Patches with holes burnt through them will also cause gas leaks, I experienced this with my Bess, not enough patch lube and too fine powder was the problem there... I wanted to burn up some FFFg I had left over from my .32 caliber days...

A final note on patches:
Are they pre cut or from a strip cut at the barrel?

If the patch is cut at the barrel where a fold in the cloth was (when the material was made and stored until it got yo you), it could be thinner in this folded area...

Take a set of calibers to your patches, note ever 4 or 5 and see if the thickness varies from the rest...

Just a thought...

If this doesn't work for you, then the fliers are from the pull of the Moon and the triangulation between Earth, Jupiter and Venus... :haha: :winking:

 

[squirejohn]

Musketman, I usually load the balls in a loading block with the sprue up. Your suggestion about looking for the patch that shot the la-la land ball is a worth a try. The only problem is that these extreme fliers don't occur that often, and finding the patch may be difficult. Lately we've been shooting over snow so patches are quite visible. My patches show no "wear" and could be used again. Sometimes I use paper patched balls and powder for speed shootin contests or even a bare ball. Although accuracy isn't too great it isn't as bad as these 2ft. fliers loaded from a block - just can't figure it out. As you say it must be the alignment of the planets or something ::

Food for thought- The early bird gets the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese in the the trap ::