advantages for using an over powder card

[chironomidkraut]

looking for some input on the positives and negatives of using over powder cards, or wads between the patched ball and the powder charge for my 50cal hawken flinter

 

[750k2]

Try it and see if it works.
I use a felt in my 54 for an easier loading combo and it works
as intended. Lets me use a little thinner patch.

 

[Thing]

I do not think you need a wad over the powder. .Double patch will work. 1 patch down the barrel on top of powder , the other a normal patched round ball. Thie first patch will kepp the 2nd patch on ball from burning through. This will improve accuracy. It always has for me in my testing. Try it both ways. See how it works for you.

 

[bpd303]

I use the patches that I wipe the bore as a wad. It works well for me in my smoothbores but haven't tried it yet in rifles. I will the next time I shoot my .54 and it does allow for a thinner patch. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...282707/post/1317655/hl//fromsearch/1/#1317655

 

[chironomidkraut]

That sounds like a great idea, will have to try it,
would it make a difference if u just crumpled the patch up and threw er down the barrel, or centered it then pushed it down

 

[F.G. Ford]

I have used a moist patch ( NOT WET!) for years. It works for better groups, and not patch burn through.
My patches are pre lubed with olive oil & beeswax.
Fred

 

[750k2]

Just push it down shouldn't matter a great deal.
If the PC police are around use hornets nest :thumbsup:

 

[Walks with fire]

Not a PC guy but I do like hornets nest. Works for me. I guess a patch would work just as well.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I found on my .40 rifle that a felt wad, meant for a .44 cap-n-ball revolver, between the powder and patched ball, seems to give some accuracy benefits, just be sure everything is seated tight, eh?

LD

 

[rafterob]

Not necessary unless you are experiencing patch burn through. The patch is a wad between the powder and ball. I shoot a tight patch and ball combo, patch looks good after shooting and I get great accuracy. As mentioned, if you shoot a thin patch to facilitate easy loading you may experience burn through. A wad of some type may be called for then. Whether that be a card, felt wad or wadded patch material or hornets nest.

 

[Billnpatti]

The OP wad serves two functions. First, it prevents burn through on your patches. You can see if this is a problem by looking at your used patches. Secondly, a well fitted OP wad will improve the seal of the hot gasses and will result in a more consistent muzzle velocity. You will need a chronograph to determine if you have seal problems that effects MV. You will need to use pre-weighed balls and powder charges to keep them absolutely consistent between shots. You will also need to wipe exactly the same between shots to keep your barrel the same from shot to shot. Fire 10 carefully controlled shots over the chronograph without an OP wad and then repeat the test changing only the use of an OP wad. Then compare the MV without an OP wad to those with an OP wad. You can also compare targets the same way. Of course, you will need to be shooting with a sandbag bench rest for all of these tests. Your chronograph will give you each individual MV as well as the average, high, low, spread and standard deviation. For target analysis, my personal preference for comparing targets is to compare Maximum Mean Radius rather than comparing overall group size. The MMR will minimize the effect of the occasional flier. When you are using overall group size, that single flier will throw your group size off. If you want to use the MMR you can Google "Maximum Mean Radius" for the instructions. It takes more work than simply measuring the overall group size but it provides a much better comparison of groups. There is some discussion of the accuracy measurements on this site http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments.html

They use the CEP calculation but the MMR is easier and gives essentially the same information.

Lots of other good info on this site.

 

[Vaino]

Seeing I like to keep things simple and am convinced that early Americans didn't use an OP wad.....I don't see a rational reason to use one.

The use of an OP wad is a product of a "modern mindset" which is in effect a "crutch" for varied reasons including a lack of knowledge mainly resulting in improper patching and lubricant and also many poorly made MLers.

An OP wad is just "something else" to contend with and I've got too many essential items in my bag already and definitely don't need a "modern fix" to a non-existent problem.....Fred

 

[chironomidkraut]

good stuff, thanks for the link as well

 

[ohio ramrod]

While many don't think it is needed, I find that a wad between the powder and lubed patch really helps. It prevents wet lube from fouling the powder, as well as helps prevent the patches from burning. :idunno:

 

[Spikebuck]

and also many poorly made MLers.

Fred, can I ask you to expand on this? I don't know that I'm following the link between needing to use an OP wad and poorly made ML. Thanks.

 

[majg1234]

I agree.... use it in all my ML from 32 up to 20ga SB, hopefully soon a 16ga SB:grin: One other thing not mentioned thus far, it seems to "wipe" some of the fouling at least with my lube.I've gone as many as 30 shots in a string with my 40 cal and upwards of 20-25 with my 32 without a swabbing.I use a thinner patch as I mainly hunt and the use of the felt wad allows me to thumb start most all my ML....so yes it works,,,,errr for me :hmm:

 

[Vaino]

Some bbls have poor bore quality or rifling that cuts patches...so some figure an OP wad might help.

But....there is another reason some think that they need them. The "Modern Mindset"....just a patch and a RB are too simple.

Not really suggesting to anyone what they should shoot in their MLer....just that for 35 yrs I haven't used OP wads and the accuracy of my MLers has been excellent......Fred

 

[Billnpatti]

"Modern mindset"? But what about the reported use, by the old timers, of wasp nest wads in both rifles and shotguns? Flights of fancy? Plain old :bull: ? What? Your use of the term "Modern mindset" would indicate that all reports of their use of wasp nest are fabrications. Is this what you are saying?

 

[bpd303]

Not to mention all of the "old time" adds for balls and wadding in period publications.

 

[Vaino]

First off...evidently you're convinced that the use of OP wads is beneficial. That's good and
asre "wasp paper"....if it was indeed used, that's good too.

Just saying that in 35 yrs of shooting MLers, I just never req'd OP wads.....accuracy w/o them was good enough to "head hit" 99% of the squirrels.

Like I said....use what makes you feel comfortable.

It's just that the "Modern Mindset" sometimes requires unnecessary complexities....Fred