Advice on Flintlocks

[nmalone1975]

Im a Mountain Man percussion shooter but I really want to get into some earlier period guns. Any advice for a good gun to start with? Maybe a Brown Bess? I've talked to plenty of flintlock shooters with injuries from exploding powder and such so I want to be as safe as possible too. Thanks for any input.

 

[Zonie]

I suspect you talked to a number of people who enjoy telling folks about their past injuries.

Kinda like going into a bar and listening to some guys talking about their scars while they roll up their pant-leg to show the results.

Yes, when a flintlock fires, there is a small flash of powder in the pan.

Yes, a jet of flame comes out of the side of the barrel thru the vent hole but a lot of this is blocked by the cock (hammer in percussion guns).
On most flintlocks, there is also a raised area right behind the pan called the "fence" which keeps most of the flash and jet of flame from coming back towards the shooter.

Then, because a good flint is as sharp as a razor blade it's easy to cut yourself if you accidentally bump into its edge.

Beyond these things, I don't think a flintlock is any more dangerous than any other kind of muzzleloader.

There is one thing you need to know.
Flintlocks must be loaded and primed with real black powder.

The synthetic black powders like Pyrodex, 777, Somebodies Gold, etc. work very poorly or not at all in a flintlock.

Even the Thompson Center flintlock that was made to be used with modern pellets needs to have real black powder in the pan to get good ignition from the sparks from the frizzen. (The thing the flint hits).

Real black powder can be hard to find in most gun stores because of the Federal (and some States) regulations.

Buying it by mail can be expensive because the companies that deliver it charge a special Hazardous Materials fee for each shipment.

Now that I've said all of this, don't let my comments dull your desire to own a flintlock.

Although they are more fussy about their powder, their flint and how careful you are about loading them, they are so enjoyable to shoot that many people who have learned how to shoot them seldom go back to their percussion guns.

As for which one to get?
That's hard to say. Some of the old CVA's aren't very good. Most of the Lyman, Traditions, Pedersoli are pretty good to better than average.

A new Brown Bess is usually quite expensive and many "used" ones were used by reenactors who only fired blanks in them and seldom (if ever) cleaned the bore.

If I had to pick just one or two I would recommend a Lyman Great Plains Rifle, Lyman Deerstalker or a Lyman Trade Rifle. All of these can be found with a flintlock.

 

[Many Klatch]

Zonie pretty well covers all the basic points. If you are used to dependable accuracy, a Brown Bess might not be a good place to start. I love my Bess but learning to shoot with that big lock and lack of sights can be a challenge. The three rifles Zonie recommends are good dependable entry level rifles that will give you good service.

Welcome to the Dark Side

 

[bpd303]

If you are thinking about a long rifle, Kentucky style, Cabela's Blue Ridge Hunter in 54 caliber is hard to beat. The classified here often have nice semi-custom flintlocks at a price that will not break the bank.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Im a Mountain Man percussion shooter but I really want to get into some earlier period guns. Any advice for a good gun to start with? Maybe a Brown Bess? I've talked to plenty of flintlock shooters with injuries from exploding powder and such so I want to be as safe as possible too. Thanks for any input.

The Brown Bess will not hold up in the accuracy department compared to any rifle you will get. The Cabela's Blue Ridge Flintlock is actually a Pedersoli longrifle and usually less expensive than the Pedersoli. It's small lock can be a bit cantankerous at times and getting 5/8" square flints to fit is can sometimes be a challenge. It is not a historically correct longrifle but draws on a number of different guns. It will certainly pass for a later period flintlock (1800's) and if that's what your looking for it will work fine. It's also a fine shooter.

If you like using the Plains style rifle, then Zonie's recommendations for the Lyman rifles are a great choice. They will feel the same as a percussion Plains rifle only using a flintlock instead...Welcome to the dark side!

As far as safety goes, always use a powder measure to pour your main charge down the barrel and you'll have eliminated about the only real danger when shooting a muzzle loader (flint or percussion). Also, remember to prime the pan after you've loaded the powder and seated the ball not before. Always prime the pan with the cock in the half-cock position and get and use a hammerstall too (hammerstall covers the frizzen).

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[AZbpBurner]

I have both a .50 cal Great Plains Rifle, and a .54 cal Deerstalker. Both are great fun to shoot, and despite the shorter barrel, I can bust grapefruit at 100 yards all day long. The GPR is a great bench gun, but for field carry the Deerstalker can't be beat.

 

[nmalone1975]

Thanks for all the helpful advice. Can't wait to go get my first flintlock.

 

[matt denison]

"Im a Mountain Man..."


A Brown Bess is not a Mountain Man gun.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I've talked to plenty of flintlock shooters with injuries from exploding powder and such

Congrats on wanting to be safe. In 45+ years I have never talked to anyone who has experienced exploding powder or injuries from accidents. Who/what are you hanging out with?
Regardless, that is a whole 'nuther subject from flintlocks.
My answer will rile the purists here. But, IMHO, anything with a flint lock on it can be taken into the mountains, and probably was. Purists will say it HAS to be a Hawken, Lehman, etc.
Horse apples. :shake: There were some preferred over other models and the actual time period affects what was 'popular'. But, my take is, if a gun was needed whatever was available and the individual could afford would have been used.

Edit: Is the pan flash what you meant by "exploding powder"? Not an issue. How did those guys get hurt by it? Strange.

 

[MSW]

Bwa ha ha ha (mad scientist laugh) another one turned to the dark side :haha:

Zonie's advice is sound, and you should heed it. As regards a 'first flintlock,' I would point you toward a Lyman or a Thompson / Center. The geometry is slightly different between the two, so I would (if at all possible) put one of each to your shoulder (wearing the clothing you'll wear when you shoot) and see which fits you best. Both will serve you well, and will last a lifetime if given proper care.

other rants:

- beware cut agate flints. they are (to paraphrase Faulkner) an anathema and apotheosis ... get black English Flints, or French amber flints if you feel like you want some bling (the amber are much more expensive than the English, but don't offer any substantial difference in performance IMHO).

- beware unnecessary gadgetry. you will need proper sized ball, lubed patches, a powder measure, a short starter, a range rod and some cleaning patches. if you cut your patches at the muzzle, you'll need a sharp knife. a 'turnkey' (what we now call a screwdriver) to tighten the cock jaws or, if your cock screw has a hole in it, and it should, IMHO, a bit of rod to tighten things down. some flints and a bit of leather for the wrap (worry about the lead vs. leather later) and you should be ready to go

- if you haven't already done so, get a copy of Dutch Schoultz' method ... here's a link http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

- some targets and a staple gun

- a towel to wipe the silly grin off your face


once rocks banged have you, forever will they dominate your range time (a little green fellow told me that) :rotf:

make good smoke!

 

[robinsroost]

For my first step into the flint lock society, I chose a .54 caliber Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It is pretty straight forward and easy to shoot. I would recommend it to anyone wanting an entry level flinter. Keep yer powder dry.......Robin

 

[coloradoclyde]

Maybe a Brown Bess?

Get a trade gun if you want a smoothie.

I've talked to plenty of flintlock shooters with injuries from exploding powder and such

That's a difficult and almost unbelievable statement to swallow. In 40 years I have never experienced such a thing. I’m flabbergasted .

 

[biliff]

I've talked to plenty of flintlock shooters with injuries from exploding powder and such so I want to be as safe as possible too. Thanks for any input.

I'm with everybody else on this one. How? I've cut myself on a sharp flint every now and then but no injuries from "exploding powder".

 

[Ken Cormier]

Well here we go. The only time I have been hurt with exploding powder from a flintlock was when being STUPID and crowding the flint shooter to MY LEFT. Caught my beard had to shave when I got home LOL. Just had to finish the relay.

 

[Alden]

A new Brown Bess is usually quite expensive and many "used" ones were used by reenactors who only fired blanks in them and seldom (if ever) cleaned the bore.

Sorry, first, excuse me. What!? Where did that come from? I have NEVER known a Rev. War (i.e. Brown Bess) or earlier reenactor who didn't clean their gun's bore. Maybe other's experiences are different but THAT different? Seriously!?

Now, in keeping with that Mountain Man theme we were reminded of I might suggest a smoothbore 20 ga. and what comes to mind is a Pedersoli Indian Trade Gun*. Yeah, one of their Cabela's Kentucky Blue Ridge rifles with a set trigger would probably be a nice, safe, route to take too.

*Pedersloi says "a model faithfully reflecting the type of rifles that since the late 1700s were used by the most well known trading companies (Northwest Co., Hudson’s Bay Co., American Fur Co.) for the trades with the American Indians and the white hunters.
These guns showing the classical lines of the old European muskets produced both by European manufacturers and by the most well known American manufacturers, such as Leman, Henry, Tryon and Deringer."



Now, some yahoos will be here in a minute to tell you the color is too nice somewhere, the trigger-guard is 1/16th inch shorter than the one they saw in a family-run roadside tourist trap, a barrel pin is 1 inch further up than it should be... All basically unimportant nonsense. Take a look at one for yourself.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

I was at the range and out shot some kid with his SKS :hmm: his pride seemed injured :rotf:

 

[bpd303]

I have done that often with those shooting Mattel guns. The only time I was out shot was by a friend and Seal Team member (sadly now deceased). He also took my quasi target 50 caliber and after several practice shots, put 10 balls in the X at 75 yards offhand, a feat I have never been able to do.

 

[jethro224]

Im a Mountain Man percussion shooter but I really want to get into some earlier period guns.

This statement kinda rules out the Lyman and T/C guns. Other than the fact that they are flintlocks, can be found for cheap, and are good starter level guns, I wouldn't recommend them in this case.

What period are you wanting to get in to? Just the guns or the whole works? Will this be just for hunting/shooting or for re-enacting?

The Pedersoli Bess is a lot of fun, but pay a bit of heed to the advice previously given before you decide to buy one.
Their Indian trade gun would definitely be worth a look.

If you are interested in a longrifle, check out TVM. Their guns are pretty nice for the $.

Another place to consider for either longrifles or smoothbores would be Tip Curtis. Tip is very hard to beat.

 

[Rifleman1776]

beware cut agate flints. they are (to paraphrase Faulkner) an anathema and apotheosis

Ye trying to :stir: ?
I love sawn flints whether agate, jasper or other rocks. Mine give great shooting life. Have used for decades. They must be in a good lock.
Downside: good ones are tricky to order from Germany and expensive.

 

[hanshi]

....As for safety with a flintlock, I've cut myself a number of times with the flint but have never had any sparks spit back at me. On the other hand I've been stung many times by percussions.