Advice on what gun to buy

[jirusse]

Guys, I am just starting out in BP, so forgive me if I display my ignorance.

I bought a stainless steel traditions deerhunter caplock at a pawn shop a few years ago and it's the only muzzleloading rifle I have ever fired. While it's been fun to shoot at the range, I would like to buy something with a more "period" feel to it.

I don't have any strong opinions on which "period" either, which probably makes this whole project stupid. I am leaning towards a flintlock for several reasons.

1. It looks like a flintlock is much more fun and satisfying to shoot than a caplock.

2. If I choose the right gun, It might be "period" over a very long time span. After all, a flintlock could (and did) show up on battlefields as late as the 1860s without drawing a lot of attention.

Can anyone recommend a decent quality rifle that wouldn't be completely out of place in a battle from about 1800-1860?

 

[Knapper51]

I guess the first question is how much are you willing to spend? Flintlocks are an area where spending a little more can save you a lot of headaches. Shooting a flinter has a learning curve and a cheap lock that doesn't work reliably can make that curve real steep. I've seen too many new BP shooters buy a cheap flintlock and soon give up the sport entirely. That's a shame because it doesn't have to be that way. Shop around and you can pick up a good firearm about $1,000 and maybe less. If you have even minimal woodworking skills you can buy an "in the white" for less money and finish it yourself. For example, I purchased an in the white Dutch Club Butt fowler from Jackie Brown for $750 and finished it out myself. I'll see if I can attach a photo. It turned out well enough that I currently have an order in for a Tulle Fusil de Chasse, also in the white. That one will cost me $850. I use JB's name because he is the one I've dealt with but there are many other good makers.

Knap

 

[Cowboy2]

What kind of battle- army or civilian?

The Brown Bess was used by just about everyone at some point and to some degree, militia, civilian, and army, for nearly 100 years. It was a smoothbore, not a rifle, but it probably saw more action in North America than anything else in that period. Rangers carried them, and the British and patriots both put them to work, and did so again at New Orleans a generation or so later. Both sides had them in Texas, and the Mexicans were still carrying them when Quitman stormed Chapultepec.

All the different long rifle iterations would have seen use in militia hands. The Hawken/Plains style rifle would have seen a lot of Indian fights in that time frame.

If you just want something that will be fun to shoot and won't break the bank, the Lyman Great Plains Rifle (a Hawken style gun) is a great choice. I love mine. I haven't used any of the Pedersoli offerings, but they make several military and civilian reproductions from that period. Neither will be perfectly period correct, but close enough for fun. If you want a more exact replica of a particular weapon, you're probably going to have to order something custom made.

 

[jirusse]

See there? You probably already saved me from making a terrible mistake. My first inclination was to buy a Lyman bottom of the line flintlock.

 

[Cowboy2]

Lyman makes a solid rifle. Swap out the vent liner with one from RCM and you are ready for the races. I don't know how true that is for other factory guns. Still, it isn't going to be the same quality of a custom or semi-custom rifle.

 

[jirusse]

I think I would prefer a rifle to a musket. The Lyman great plains is a good quality rifle? They are not very expensive.

 

[Cowboy2]

Run a search in the flintlock section, most people seem to be very happy with them once the vent liner is replaced ($5 part). Which isn't to say there isn't room for improvement. Mine was my first flintlock, and I've been very happy with it. I'm thinking about upgrading the lock, but its me being nitpicky, not because it doesn't work fine.

 

[Hans74]

A gun is a little to heavy to carry and a 106 or a 155 the recoil might be a little much LOL.

But a nice Southern Mountain or a Hawken rifle will always fit in. :wink:

 

[Knapper51]

It has been a number of years since I had any dealings with the Lyman. At one time they were known for often having problems. They may still as L&R offers a replacement lock for them. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/759/1/LOCK-LR-05-F Or they may have improved their quality control.

Knap

 

[jirusse]

I don't mean to be obtuse, but what is a vent liner and why do you need to change it?

 

[Farren55]

A trade musket might do you well if you intend to reenact as a civilian the design was relatively unchanged for 100+ years, it was used at trading post around the British Empire so it is a very versatile musket (usually is .62 Cal-20 guage-).

 

[Cowboy2]

Not obtuse at all. I didn't know what it was 10 years ago. The vent is the hole on the side of the barrel that allows the spark/flash from the lock/pan to flash over to ignite the main charge. The vent can/does erode over time, and many flintlocks have a screw-in liner. Its sort of like a hollow screw that's easy to remove for cleaning or replacement. The Lyman factory liner just isn't great, and can cause a lot of flashes in the pan (misfire). Some people have luck drilling them out a hair larger. The RCM liner is screwed in with a small allen wrench with a little lubricant on the screw threads. It is a huge improvement. It'll need to be replaced every so often, depending on how much you shoot, so buy 2-3 and save yourself the extra shipping.

I don't mean to push you towards the Lyman. I think you should buy the best rifle you can afford that fits your needs. Flintlocks are a bit more work intensive than caplocks, triply so if you've been shooting an easy to clean black powder substitute like Triple Seven. Which is to say, if you take it to the range and decide its one great big pain in the rear, you at least haven't spent a ton of money, and you'll be able to re-sell it for a reasonable price. That's why I got mine. I wanted a flintlock but wasn't sure if I'd been too spoiled with Triple Seven in my caplocks, and didn't want to spend a thousand dollars and waiting six months for someone to build me one just to find out I hated it. (I forgot to mention, flintlocks require at least some, preferably all, real black powder, which is a bit more work to clean).

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don't mean to be obtuse, but what is a vent liner and why do you need to change it?

This is a legitimate question from a new to flintlock shooter. The vent liner is an insert that replaces the touch hole on a flintlock to improve the passing of the heat and flame to the main charge. The Lyman liner has a smaller internal chamber than the suggested replacement. The replacement liner has a larger internal chamber to bring powder from the main charge closer to the heat of the pan. You will have improved firing if you make the touch hole 1/16" in diameter.


The flintlock represents the art of shooting black powder. A great lock can make a modest rifle a great shooter. A great lock makes the shooting a flintlock gun a joy. Spend the money to get a rifle with a good lock.

 

[Artificer]

Can anyone recommend a decent quality rifle that wouldn't be completely out of place in a battle from about 1800-1860?

Any rifle that is a copy of a 1780 -1800 rifle would be a good choice. I know of two original Revolutionary War period rifles that were used by Virginia family descendants in the beginning of the WBTS and have the provenance to back it up. One was converted to percussion and the other was left as the original flintlock. There are even more earlier rifles and muskets and double barrel shotguns that were used at the beginning of the conflict, some converted to percussion or some that came as percussion originally, and some left as the original flintlock.

Bottom line, if you get a rifle that was common for the earliest of the period you want, then it will still be more than correct for the early part of the WBTS.

Gus

 

[jamieorr]

I bought a Lyman flintlock as a starter because it seemed to be a good rifle at a reasonable price - not the cheapest but still not expensive. I've been shooting five times so far and I'm very happy with it. The vent is definitely under 1/16th, but seems to work well. I've had a few misfires, but if I prick it before priming and keep it clean, misfires are not a problem. Works best if I give the main charge a good poke through the vent, maybe it loosens it up and encourages it to migrate into the hollowed vent liner?

I've got the Trade Rifle as I wanted a single trigger, but I see lots of happy Great Plains owners at the range - mostly caplocks, though.

Jamie

 

[jirusse]

Thats a fine looking gun. I can't help wondering how it feels. Does that stock point well? By fowler, you mean smoothbore?

 

[Knapper51]

Yes, it's a smoothie. I spent most of my life in pursuit of the elusive one-hole group with a rifle. It was only somewhat recently that my aging eyes caused me to even consider a smoothbore. Now I wish I had made the change sooner. A smoothbore is pretty much a "do anything" gun. I can load it with a single .615 cal ball and hunt anything on this continent. I'm confident of a good hit out to at least 50 yards. Someone with younger eyes can stretch that by a good bit. Unlike a rifle, I'm not limited to a single ball load. I have the option of everything from buckshot to birdshot in addition to the single huge ball.

I was looking for something different when I ordered the club butt. It looks like it would be awkward and clumsy but it isn't. It shoulders and swings at least as easily as my English fowler and weighs a full pound less. I can't wait for my Tulle to arrive so I can work up loads for it.

Knap

 

[EC121]

Whatever you buy, make sure the LOP is correct. You will be more comfortable with a gun you can hold correctly. Nothing worse than a rifle that is too long.

 

[AZbpBurner]

See there? You probably already saved me from making a terrible mistake. My first inclination was to buy a Lyman bottom of the line flintlock.

There's nothing 'bottom of the line' about any of the Lyman rifles. I have several in both cap and flint, and with minimal work, they all function just fine. As pretty much everyone else has done, I've enlarged the touch hole, and chamfered the inside of the liner. I bought an Ampco liner, but haven't needed to use it yet, since, with minimal effort, all my Lyman liners work fine.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

You're n a website with many experienced muzzleloader enthusiasts out there. So, we have picky tastes and plenty of skill.

Someday you may want a "custom" muzzleloader.

However, for now lyman GPS or something from pedersoli would be great.

Pedersoli from what I hear make great guns. They have a more traditional look to them than a lyman GPR "hawkens"ish look. They also have replica military guns too.

I own a lyman GPR. I like mine. I will likely sell it one day, but not soon. I am building my own muzzleloader, so eventually I want everything to made by me.

Good lock, but not perfect. Shoots great and not picky to find a good load.

Every gun needs this and that to get better. However, to make a GPR a great shooter you need a bout an hours worth of time and maybe $20 of stuff. IF hunting with it, a brass front sight, quality black enlgish flints of the right size, and a 1/16th drill bit.

Going back to the gun itself. Looks at the bore vs barrel size. The barrel outside size is measured like a wrench size. The bigger the hole drill out in the middle, the less it weighs. The more it weighs up front, the more it get amplified that it feels "heavy".

I found the 54 cal to be great. it weights about a 1/4 to 1/3 of a pound less up front due to the bigger hole. Not a huge difference between the 50 cal, but I notice it. If the 45 cal has a smaller outside size, then go for the 45 cal.

If you order your gun stuff, 54 cal is fine to get. Smaller gun shops may not carry 54 cal roundballs, atleast out in the northeast where there is little much else than whitetail to hunt. 50 is the easiest to find roundball for, then the next is 45.

Whatever gun you choose, make sure you can get a better lock for it, a drop in replacement. If for some reason your having failure to light the pan powder issues, a new lock will be the easiest route to go.

I wish lyman would brown the steel parts versus blue them. Aside from that, I think the GPR looks much more period correct than CVA or Thompson Centers offerings.

Flintlocks can get fussy after a dozen shots or so. However, your first shot or two will be extremely reliable and you won't find hunting a problem.

IF you don't know, you need real blackpowder for flintlocks. FFFg or 3F is good for both the roundball powder that goes in the bore and that little bit you need to put in the pan of the lock. Although 45 to 54 cal is more ideal if you use 2F in the barrel. Sometimes, real blackpowder is hard to find. IT's an actual explosive, so there is storage issues in retail stores. IF you don't see it, ask, they may store it locked up outside in the back.

Let me rephrase, I don't need a gun batter than a lyman GPR. I just want something a bit more period correct. But far as thinking you got an old gun of yesteryear in your hand, the GPR definitely fits the ticket over most other popular replicas.

A 7 pointer really did not like my lyman GPR last fall though. So, don't ask him.