advice sought

[Justin]

I have a lyman great plains hunter and having difficulty sighting in with only 7 days left until elk season. This is a new .54 caliber and I have ran about 120 shots thru it. At fifty yards, I shoot about an inch and a half group w/ some inside of each other. At 100 yards I'm getting groups of about 8 inches. Any suggestions? I've been using 425 grain hornady conicals. I also tried 435 grain Thompson. I've tried every combination I can think of regarding powder and bullets. Thanks for any help.

Justin

 

[jtmattison]

Have you tried a wonder wad under the bullet?
This may tighten your groups.
What are you lubing with?
What powder and charge are you using?
Give us more info and maybe we can help.

Huntin

 

[musketman]

At fifty yards, I shoot about an inch and a half group w/ some inside of each other. At 100 yards I'm getting groups of about 8 inches. Any suggestions?

Elk are a tad bigger than 8 inches, unless you are trying for a head shot, use the load...

You should have about a 3-4 inch groupe at 75 yards, keep your range under 100 yards and blow the socks off that elk...

Now, if you can get the groups tighter, by all means, do so...

But don't be worried about taking your current load elk hunting, just keep in mind the range and you will have elk for dinner....

You could polish the riflings with lapping compound, take the newness out of it, so to speak...

 

[Stumpkiller]

At fifty yards, I shoot about an inch and a half group w/ some inside of each other. At 100 yards I'm getting groups of about 8 inches. Any suggestions?

Three things come to mind:

Get closer than 100 yards.

Have your eyes checked. You should get 3" groups at 100 yards if you're getting 1-1/2: groups at 50 . . . unless the target is bluring out on you.

The other possibility is that the conicals are not stabilizing. Your 1:32" twist in .54 needs the longest conical you can find.

 

[Slowpoke]

J,
Have you tried powerbelt bullets? The shoot well out of my brothers inline. Your rifle has a twist of 1-32 and that just weird.... It's halfway between a good bullet twist and a good PRB. Sorry I'm not much help....

SP

 

[tg]

It is probably to late for this season but I would suggest getting a RB barrel for that gun, I have found that Oregon Elk do not require a heavy conical to coax them into the freezer .50 or better yet .54 RB's work very well.Many find it more rewarding to use non modern projectiles while taking big game as which can be an added bonus.

 

I just happen to have a Lyman GPH in .54.
Stumpy ain't right about needing a LONGER bullet.
You need one a mite shorter. The 1:32 twist isn't THAT fast.
Mine shoots REAL well with the SABOTED Lyamn 335 grain boat tail h.p. with 90 grains of fuel.
You could be 'period correct', or you could get the BEST and most ACCURATE load for the task at hand.
I suspect of you wanted a roundball shooter you would have bought one in the 1st place.
8" at 100 is UNACCEPTABLE. Period!
I get 1" at 75 with the sabot I mentioned.
The only whitetail I shot with it was facing me at 80 yards and the bullet was recovered fully expanded in a rear ham.
It'll pass through broadside on an elk.
You're ,54 needs a 1:28 twist for heavy bullets.
I never found one conical that would stabilize in mine.
The sabots shot best.
If you can find some Buffalo SSB 375 grain sabots in .54 then go with them. They are devastating and very, very accurate.
If you are not allowed to use sabots then find a conical in the 350 grain weight range, don't lube the bullet shank too much if at all.
I'm going 'period correct' this year for deer with my Jeager .50 flinter. But I've killed plenty of deer and don't mind if I don't get one.

 

[tg]

"You could be 'period correct', or you could get the BEST and most ACCURATE load for the task at hand."

Technicaly you are probably talking about a 300 Mag. or 8MM,
in the world of ML hunting many consider the RB to fit the description above.... the trend towards "bullets" in ML's is driven soley by missinformation and marketing based on modern ballistic theory and ignoring the reality of RB hunting and its ability to take game, you may consisder my post an attempt to "educate" if you like....

 

Now we have only 5 days left before the season, the guy will be in the woods hunting, and we are attempting to argue over PC loads that will probably not shoot worth squat in a 1/32 barrel!

I am a died in the wool round ball shooter, but I set my guns up for RB. This man has a sabot barrel and needs advice that will keep him in the humane catagory while hunting.

You need range time for expirimentation with various projectiles. No amount of computer advice will insure that your gun zeros with any given load at 100 yds. you need extensive range time for that.

Until you get time to experiment with the loads and tune the load/gun combination, limit your shots to the range where you have "kill zone" capability.

Remember that a 1" group at 50 yds off the bench will often become a 12" group off-hand. That 8" group at 100yds will be off of the elk off-hand and at estimated hunting ranges.

Remember that some of our "crack shots" on the forum are still trying to hit the 3x5" index card at 50 yds!
:crackup:

Every one has to know their maximum range and put a limit on their shots. This is hunting, and a "hail Mary" volly is unacceptable. Until you can work out a better load, pretend its a smoothbore and get really close. It's the only humane thing to do.

:m2c:

 

[tg]

"It is probably to late for this season"

my own quote in case someone left their glasses on the kitchen table...

 

Hey tg.
Read the guys question will ya?
He was asking for loads for his Lyman GPR in .54 caliber with a 1:32 twist. My replies were directed to suitable loads for HIS rifle as he asked.
Get it? Loads for HIS rifle with that twist rate.
He didn't ask for a PERIOD CORRECT load, and I didn't ask to be educated.
The man wants advice on loads for a stated rifle, caliber and twist rate.
Modern cartridges are not an appropriate topic on this forum. :yakyak: :yakyak: :yakyak:

 

[tg]

Well fella....I did not know that all suggestions had to be limited to what was at hand, I said up front that the barrel switch would probably be a long term fix, and I did not mention PC just offered the thought that some find more satisfaction in useing non-modern stuff which could be an added feature of the swithch, the LGP has a good rep as a ball shooter and the .54 ball is hell on Elk, and I have given up on trying to educated you.... now back to Justin, I would think it late in the game to find a load unless you have a lot of time for range work, I think that as mentioned elsewhere that limiting the shot to the range that a good grouop can be had is the best way to go, and as for the 100 yd thing a person might want to know his gun and be very familiar with judgeing distance with Elk and taking them with open sights, before trying one at what seems to be "100 yds." seriously consider a 75 yds max if the gun will group acceptably there....and good luck with your hunt Justin, this rain is making me itch a bit and think about pouring some powder down the tube...

 

[Ohio Joe]

Justin,

You say you have a .54 Lyman Great Plains Hunter? DGW suggests 75 grains of 2fg, with sabot or conicals...

Now, with that out of the way, have you checked your barrel to make sure it actually is the "Hunter" barrel with 1 - 32 twist, with .007 depth rifling? Maybe a mistake was made at their (Investarms) end, and you might have a standard Great Plains barrel with 1 - 60 twist, with .010 depth rifling?

Take your caliper (or someone's) and check the depth of your rifling. This will be the quickest way to confirm what you have.

If all checks out alright, you may consider deleading the barrel with, "Shooter Choice" or "Hoppe's Famous NO.9 Solvent". Maybe you have a leading problem in your bore?

Good luck!

 

[madstone]

Justin,
Everyone "in here" knows more than I do! But.... Whe I find a vast unexplainable difference in grouping at greater distance I usually suspect the ball/bullet is not stabilized by the twist. Drop back to a slightly lighter projectile and see if your groups remain better at longer ranges.
When doing lots of gun trading, decades ago, I picked up the trick of using light bullet handloads to sell and heavier ones to sell!! I was honest, though, and always told the "victim" what I was doing unless he was a "jerk"!
For hunting purposes anything near one inch groups at 50 yds should do nicely if only you can stretch this geometrically to the maximum. :m2c:

 

[Keith]

Every one has to know their maximum range and put a limit on their shots. This is hunting, and a "hail Mary" volly is unacceptable. Until you can work out a better load, pretend its a smoothbore and get really close. It's the only humane thing to do.

:m2c:

:imo: This is probably the best advice here on this subject.

 

Justin

Check your flashing PM mailbox near the top-left of this page. :imo:

 

[Donny]

:hmm:Exactly what are all the powder combinations did you try?
I wonder if you are using 120 grs. FFFg or such?? Too much??The service load for the 1861 .58 rifled musket w/mini was only 60 grs FFg. I don't recall exactly, but history sez penetration of hard wood at 500 yds was most impressive. :shocking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Stumpy ain't right about needing a LONGER bullet.
You need one a mite shorter. The 1:32 twist isn't THAT fast.

I'll yield to Maxiball's experience with conicals. I haven't shot many, and none that weren't solid lead. 1:32" is what I regard as a VERY fast twist in a .54. I know the 1:48 twist on my .54 Renegade is WAY too fast. :haha: I had a tough time deciding between 1:60, 1:66 and 1:72" for my .54 Lehigh.

There's something more than math going on to cause a 1-1/2" group at 50 yards to dissolve into an 8" at twice that distance.

So Justin, did you get out and get any better luck this past weekend?

 

[Rat]

So where did that Justin go anyhow?

Yes, if a bullet does not stabilize, due to the rate of twist being too slow, a SHORTER bullet will usually do the trick.

Groups opening up that much does sound like the bullet is not stable. (but it could very well be a sighting problem...can the shooter hit well at 100 with another rifle of known good accuracy?) It sounds like how a smoothbore shoots, real good at 50, but then real "big" at 100.

Yes, what are the powder charges? The "trend" these days is towards 150 grain mega-charges of powder...100 grains in a .54 should be more than enough to drop an Elk under 100 yards. A too heavy charge could be skidding the slug over the rifling, and not giving it much spin.

I like the combined advice of limiting range to 75 yards in the short term, and then getting a round-ball barrel for a long term fix. Leave the sabots for the in-line shooters and the slugs for the rifle-muskets.

If slugs are a must for some reason, indeed try a shorter one, and start it out over a light charge, and slowly work the charge up until accuracy falls off.

Rat