Alignment Question for the Builder's Brain Trust

[roundball]

TC Hawken 'Cougar' Percussion rifle (hooked + patent breech) a special run with very beautiful presentation grade stock wood.

I've converted one to a Flintlock, which was nothing more than relieving some wood in the percussion lock mortise to accommopdate the Flintlock assembly, dropped in a Flint barrel, everything lined up perfectly, works perfectly, etc.

Now, I want to convert a second one that I have...but there's a problem:

When I drop in the flint barrel, the touchhole is lined up at the back edge of the pan, almost in line with the edge of the fence...a good 3/16" too far back.

The lock mortise seems to be positioned correctly on the side of the stock compared to others I have...so I'm thinking the inletting operation for the tang may have been too far back...but not enough off to cause any alignment problems for the percussion breech.

If I remove the tang screws and slide the tang forward the correct amount, I can see that it will create the correct alignment...and I'd be able to fill and restart new tang mounting holes.

But the front main block of metal which is the tang face is then held forward off the stock wood by that same amount, with an air gap behind it losing a lot of it's recoil support.

It is truly a gorgeous piece of walnut, but I don't use caplocks anymore and really hoped to convert it to a Flintlock.

If I've described this well enough so you can visualize it, I'm wondering if this is something that could be easily and safely resolved...ie:

Reposition the tang forward and cut/fit a piece of steel behind the face of the tang to take up the space?

Have a custom tang made which is a little longer?

Other?

Or just leave it a percussion?

::

 

I think I'd try make'n a 3/16" shim and silver solder it to the face of the tang, which will also take some "ingenuity" in regards to the hook on the "hooked" breech plug.

Does the barrel tennon still line up for the wedge key when the barrel is moved 3/16" forward?????

YMHS
rollingb

 

[rich pierce]

I'd leave it percussion and keep it or sell it. Once you start down the road of altering it, you've got problems with the finish of the gun, which is probably finely blued. It will be very hard to get a longer tang etc made and blued to match. Then you've got to deal with the recoil shoulder and you likely have a problem with the wedge and underlug and possibly with the under-rib and etc.

 

[roundball]

I think I'd try make'n a 3/16" shim and silver solder it to the face of the tang, which will also take some "ingenuity" in regards to the hook on the "hooked" breech plug.

Does the barrel tennon still line up for the wedge key when the barrel is moved 3/16" forward?????

YMHS
rollingb

Actually, when I slide the tang forward, the whole front block of steel which is the tang face moves forward off the front of the wood...I can put a shim in behind it...doesn't even have to be welded, just blued and it'll mostly be out of sight under the tang strap;

Eyeballing the wedge & tenon, I think there's enough lateral play to handle the shift;

 

I think I'd try make'n a 3/16" shim and silver solder it to the face of the tang, which will also take some "ingenuity" in regards to the hook on the "hooked" breech plug.

Does the barrel tennon still line up for the wedge key when the barrel is moved 3/16" forward?????

YMHS
rollingb

Actually, when I slide the tang forward, the whole front block of steel which is the tang face moves forward off the front of the wood...I can put a shim in behind it...doesn't even have to be welded, just blued and it'll mostly be out of sight under the tang strap;

Eyeballing the wedge & tenon, I think there's enough lateral play to handle the shift;

Roundball,.... I thot about make'n thet suggestion too, but then you'd have to deal with the 3/16" gap at the tail of the tang.

If you used a 3/16" piece of silver as a frontal tang shim, I think it would be very attractive indeed and no worries about a gap behind the tang-tail!! (jest an idea! )

YMHS
rollingb

 

[roundball]

I think I'd try make'n a 3/16" shim and silver solder it to the face of the tang, which will also take some "ingenuity" in regards to the hook on the "hooked" breech plug.

Does the barrel tennon still line up for the wedge key when the barrel is moved 3/16" forward?????

YMHS
rollingb

Actually, when I slide the tang forward, the whole front block of steel which is the tang face moves forward off the front of the wood...I can put a shim in behind it...doesn't even have to be welded, just blued and it'll mostly be out of sight under the tang strap;

Eyeballing the wedge & tenon, I think there's enough lateral play to handle the shift;

Roundball,.... I thot about make'n thet suggestion too, but then you'd have to deal with the 3/16" gap at the tail of the tang.

If you used a 3/16" piece of silver as a frontal tang shim, I think it would be very attractive indeed and no worries about a gap behind the tang-tail!! (jest an idea! )

YMHS
rollingb

:hmm:...good point...if I build everything on the front of the tang, all the existing tang relationships remain as they are.

Or, maybe I could get lucky, make precise measurements, and have TC make a new tang with a longer face...

(Yeah...when donkey's fly)

 

[BLAHMAN]

I like Rollinb's answer, make a shim.

 

Roundball, if you really want to keep this rifle and want it to be flint, why not just move the touch hole?. Would be a whole lot easier than moveing the whole barrel IMO.

Cody

 

Roundball, if you really want to keep this rifle and want it to be flint, why not just move the touch hole?. Would be a whole lot easier than moveing the whole barrel IMO.

Cody

I'm not sure it would be easier/safer with TC's patent breech,.... but, I am sure it would "void" TC's life-time warranty!!

YMHS
rollingb

 

[roundball]

Roundball, if you really want to keep this rifle and want it to be flint, why not just move the touch hole?. Would be a whole lot easier than moveing the whole barrel IMO.

Cody

FYI, this is currently a percussion rifle...all I've done was temporarily move an existing factory TC production flint barrel from another rifle and drop it into this stock, and discovered the alignment problem.

The barrel fits fine on other rifles and any additional TC barrel I get will have the exact same dimensions with the touch hole already in place on the breechplug, and positioned in a way that's related to the internal patent breech configuration...

 

[RMillet]

Track has breechplugs for the T/C guns that don't appear to be drilled for the touch hole. That'd be the route I'd go. Matching up the bluing would undoubtedly be a hassle but you could just strip the old barrel and re-blue or brown the whole works at once.

Dick

 

[roundball]

UPDATE:

The design & dimensions of the tang face and breechplug hook are built in relationship to each other...shimming tang face further forward would prevent the breech hook from being able to reach back in far enough to 'hook' behind the backside of the tang face.

 

[BLAHMAN]

Yeah, you're right, you'd have to extend the hook, or reduce the spot where it hooks to....see what ya mean, there.

Any way to adjust the fence or widen the pan?

 

[SAJones]

Have you considered another barrel? I know there are folks who sell "drop in" TC barrels, & maybe you could get a flint barrel w/ hooked breech plug w/o the vent drilled. More expensive, but I would think more practical than trying to move the barrel forward any distance, as that opens up a lot problems already addressed.