Alternative practice balls...the question now is: Why Wait ??

[roundball]

"Why Wait"?

I’ve been having an interesting time the past several months, learning new things by experimenting with alternative types of round balls for informal practice, just as a "what if" exercise in case lead balls ever became unaffordable, unavailable, or outright banned.

I’ve experimented with wax bullets, round wooden balls, solid glass marbles, and solid rubber balls. To my surprise I found that there happens to be some regular solid glass marbles that come in sizes which are an excellent match to the lead balls normally used in .58/.62cals and they also proved to be extremely accurate.

In addition, I’ve found a solid rubber ball that is a perfect fit in the .40cal and they are also extremely accurate. Further, I've found and begun a dialogue with a company right here in North Carolina that makes a whole line of different size solid rubber balls and am waiting for their list of specific dimensions to arrive now.

This is all good stuff to know if lead balls should ever become an issue in the future...but...now even another thought has floated up: "why wait" ?

Put aside any concerns about lead possibly being banned in the "future"...and just focus on cost for those casual trips to the range where we’re just practicing our form, or shooting for the fun of it whether punching holes in paper or plinking tin cans. For that, anybody could start using these alternative practice balls right now in the .40/.58/.62cals as they are dirt cheap compared to current lead prices as it is. For example, the marbles I found that were so accurate in the .58cal only cost a penny apiece...100 for a dollar. By contrast, the price of a 100 Hornady .570”s is up to $16.00 now and expected to continue climbing higher as lead has been doing for a couple years.

In practical terms, a 60 mile round trip to the range to shoot a 50 round range session costs me $14.00 gas every Saturday morning. If I shoot 50 of these perfect fitting marbles for 50 cents instead of $8.00 worth of lead balls, I immediately pay for half the cost of the gasoline. Then figure in the savings from a 50% reduction in powder charges and the cost of the trip goes down even more...something to think about...is it unconventional, yes...but most anything new seems unconventional at first. For me, I’ve sorted out and set aside several bags of 50 marbles each for the .58cal...plan to use them on several Saturdays after turkey season. So the question actually now might be...why wait?

Meanwhile I’ll still be pursuing the additional size rubber ball possibilities and will share that info when I get it. After explaining the whole scenario to the sales manager at this NC plant, I said "so unless you guys are already making too much money, there might be the possibility of a little niche market here for you in the future...and you're already in the business of making solid rubber balls so you don't have to go make any R&D investments" and he got very interested...spent a long time on the phone with me twice...I've sent him some caliber and nominal ball sizes.

 

[dry ball john]

:hmm: This sounds like a very good idea. I personally do not have a problem obtaining lead but if I could get 40 cal rubber bullets for my flintlock what FUN I could have at bushey tail season--really something to think about---John

 

[Kentuckywindage]

For targets i like the glass marble idea. But what if the thing comes apart in the game you are shooting? Thats like shredding up glass and putting it on your steak :hmm:

 

[nvbirdman]

The rubber balls are great. I shoot them at a steel plate and if I can load a new powder charge quick enough and get the muzzle pointed down range quick enough the ball goes back down the barrel and I can shoot it again. Sorta like those paddles with a rubber band and ball. :haha:

 

[MercerLake]

:v Sounds like a great idea to me. Have you done any shooting with the marbles and rubber balls at distances beyond 25 yards? What are the weights for these "alternative" balls?
I've tried patched steel ball bearings salvaged from bearing sets, but have not pursued a source for larger quantities. The accuracy at most ranges seemed to be equal to that from lead from my .62/20 bore fowler with my shooting. :v

 

[onepaw]

great info! let me us know about the rubber ball diameters and how to get them if it works out!

 

[MikeC]

Nice work keep us in the loop please.

Mike

 

[roundball]

For targets i like the glass marble idea. But what if the thing comes apart in the game you are shooting? Thats like shredding up glass and putting it on your steak :hmm:

My interest was mainly to find an alternative practice ball due to the volume I shoot...would continue to use lead balls for hunting, or a non-toxic lead replacement if that was forced on us...as I would only use a few of those a year.

But as a side note about glass marbles, I wonder if they mix a trace of some sort of polymer as a binding agent during it's molten state to prevent breakage...I have personally thrown these glass marbles down on a concrete floor as hard as I possibly could, multiple times, and they never break...they bounce back up and hit the ceiling...double checked the bag and it says "glass marbles"...double checked the website, and it says "glass marbles".

PS:
They're not heavy enough to use on big game so they eliminates that, and if you only tried for head shots on squirrels & rabbits there would be no worry anyways.

 

[roundball]

The rubber balls are great. I shoot them at a steel plate and if I can load a new powder charge quick enough and get the muzzle pointed down range quick enough the ball goes back down the barrel and I can shoot it again. Sorta like those paddles with a rubber band and ball. :haha:

They are made of "dead no-bounce" rubber...throw them down on a concrete floor as hard as you can and at best they only lift back up off the floor 3-4 inches and that's it. The rubber balls I tested in the .40cal are specifically made of no-bounce rubber for use in training guns by law enforcement agencies practicing "clearing rooms" inside of buildings.

 

[roundball]

"...done any shooting with the marbles and rubber balls at distances beyond 25 yards?..."

Not yet, plan to do so after turkey season ends...however, with a single ragged hole at 25yds I can't imagine there being anything significantly different at 50yds.

Because they weigh far less than a lead ball of comparable size, it seems to me as long as you keep the velocity up for a longer distance the accuracy shouldn't suffer, or at least not significantly...I'll post results of course.

What are the weights for these "alternative" balls?

The 9/16" marbles that can be sorted and used in both the .58cal & .62cal = 65grns;
(I used 50grns Goex 3F + .018" pillow ticking)

The solid rubber balls for the .40cal = 15grns.
(I used 30grns Goex 3F + .015" patch).

Both gave single ragged hole accuracy at 25yds.

 

[Little Wattsy]

roundball:
I know that you have posted a few around the various posts that you have done but it might be cool to have a "liks" posting of the retail outlets you are useing and finding most useful....It could be updated as you found new and better stuff/sites. ?

And MAYBE a calibur chart from say .32 to .80 :hmm:

 

[roundball]

roundball:
I know that you have posted a few around the various posts that you have done but it might be cool to have a "liks" posting of the retail outlets you are useing and finding most useful....It could be updated as you found new and better stuff/sites. ?

And MAYBE a calibur chart from say .32 to .80 :hmm:

No...these are just my experiments with various things in my MLs doing things the way I do things.
As soon as I started creating something formal like that it would send the signal that it was some sort of official/tested/proven reference file and surely there would be some number of people who might try things from it in their MLs using their practices and proiedures and it not work well for them, then they'd complain about it, etc.

I'm always willing to share anything I've discovered like this if anybody wants to to try it themselves but I have no interest in creating then owning the responsibility of maintaining and updating some file like that.

It is definitely something that you could do though...all I'm doing is durfing the net and corresponding with various companies about products...not doing a thing in the world that you or anybody else couldn't do from the comfort of their own PC. When I post the results of this latest activity after it's pulled together, you're more than welcome to cut/paste/save it...no warranties expressed or implied. :wink:

 

[omarick1948]

Our Forefathers must be really turning in their graves over this thread!

What next?.....Dried Mouse pellets for shotguns?.. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[roundball]

Our Forefathers must be really turning in their graves over this thread!

What next?.....Dried Mouse pellets for shotguns?.. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

They've already rolled over in their graves so much from the modern muzzleloading manure they're too tirede to roll over any more!



If / when lead is banned, and they fit a caliber, bring'em on :grin:

 

[Darkgael]

"to prevent breakage"
One thing that I've noticed about the marbles that I've ordered and measured is that they are not perfectly spherical. Measured across one diameter, a ball might be 0.590 and across another it'll be 0.610. When I turn some of them slowly in my fingers, I can see the out of roundness.
My concern about using marbles - which I still believe is a clever idea (though I like the rubber ball idea even more) - is this: what do you do if one gets stuck? It won't break. It won't deform. I won't be able to pull it with a ball puller. So what would you do?
Pete

 

[omarick1948]

Not try to ruin my barrel in the first place?

 

[roundball]

"to prevent breakage"
One thing that I've noticed about the marbles that I've ordered and measured is that they are not perfectly spherical. Measured across one diameter, a ball might be 0.590 and across another it'll be 0.610. When I turn some of them slowly in my fingers, I can see the out of roundness.
My concern about using marbles - which I still believe is a clever idea (though I like the rubber ball idea even more) - is this: what do you do if one gets stuck? It won't break. It won't deform. I won't be able to pull it with a ball puller. So what would you do?
Pete

I had similar thoughts and came to a couple of conclusions:

1) When I sort the marbles, I leave an eyelash more margin for error in case there's an odd tolarance situation like that...ie: I know my .58cal will handle both .570" and .575" Hornady lead balls...but with marbles I sort out anything larger than .570" and set them aside for the .62cal so I have a little cushion.

(might even make sense to sort at .565" for an even bigger margin)

2) I have one of those CO2 dischargers if a ball got stuck;

But IMO, the rubber balls for practice are going to be the real deal...so far, unlike marbles, my findings have been that they are manufactured under very tight quality control dimension tolerances.
I assume a ball puller would screw into them easily...maybe too easily...and the ball puller might pull right back up out of the rubber ball...I'll try that a few times next trip I make to the range with rubber balls. But if so, a little powder or CO2 discharger should do the job fine.

If high quality, low cost, no bounce molded rubber ball sources can be established to cover most calibers, we can probably forget about the marbles altogether as far as practice goes...the .410" I used in the .40cal is so outstanding that I temporarily suspended further exploration of marbles until I can flesh out the rubber ball options further as I think that's where the real potential lies.

If I get the samples this coming week, and they are as they should be (ie: an advertsied 1/2" ball should be .500" give or take tiny variations) I'll place a minimum order (1000) and run some range tests.

 

[John Tice]

Roundball,I've found your experiments very informative and appreciate hearing about your results and some possible alternatives to lead, especially in case the laws do change. :hatsoff:
JT

 

[flm_shooter]

They are made of "dead no-bounce" rubber...throw them down on a concrete floor as hard as you can and at best they only lift back up off the floor 3-4 inches and that's it. The rubber balls I tested in the .40cal are specifically made of no-bounce rubber for use in training guns by law enforcement agencies practicing "clearing rooms" inside of buildings.

At last! Now our "tacticals" can really be tactical!

 

[Darkgael]

RB - Progress? Inquiring minds want to know.

Pete