Alternatives to 4f

[BrownBear]

I'm seriously considering a flinter but where I live getting ANY black powder, much less 4f for priming, is impossible. I keep hearing second hand stories that Pyrodex isn't all that reliable for priming. Is there a reliable alternative to 4f for priming?

 

[musketman]

Is there a reliable alternative to 4f for priming?

Yes, 3F and 2F...

Black powder seem to be the best choise...

 

[Stumpkiller]

What he said. Unfortunately, blackpower is the lifeblood of the flintlock. Anything as volitile is just as controlled and restricted. THAT is why I campain against synthetic powders in principle. They are a substitute in SOME cases, but that just makes it more convenient for retailers to dismiss blackpowder as irrelevent "cause only those rock pounding, undependable, flinch-locks need it. Nobody uses them anymore. Why bother." When I get that attitude I say: "Yeah, it's also cheaper and easier to shop online for all this other stuff on your shelves. Goodbye."

It's like the resturant owner who says he doesn't need a handicapped access ramp because the handicapped never come to his resturant. :youcrazy:

You can't even get it shipped surface to AK? That's a bummer. The more I hear, the more I'm thinkin it's time to lay up a lifetime supply in a vault, somewhere. At least I can get it mailed to me. Have you tried finding a M/L club in AK that may have enough clout & purchasing base to justify a shipment?

 

Brown Bear,

Where obtaining powder is a problem, and it was everywhere back in the 60s and 70s, you often have to improvise. There was another thread a day or so ago about crushing course powder, and this will work, but is not necessary.

I usually prime from my powder horn without reguard to what is in there. I also use a larger vent than most since this convinience and the reliability of my guns is worth losing a foot or two of muzzle velocity.

When I started shooting I knew there was something called 4f but I did not see a can of the stuff for the first 15 years of my shooting. I have even resorted to 1-f on occasion, when nothing else was available.

If you want to shoot a flintlock in the land of no powder you will first have to make some decisions and consider your options.

1. Make the gun convertable or buy one that can be switched from flint to percussion. That way the gun is not sitting idley when you cannot find real black powder. Most manufacturers provide this option.

2. Use a duplex charge to strech you black powder. Substitutes will often ignite in the barrel if the pan is primed with real black. If your gun will not cooperate you may have to use a "booster" charge of 10-20 grains black against the breech and the rest of the substitute charge loaded on top of that. If all you have to do is prime with black you only need 3-7 grains per shot, that will give you 1000 + shots per can of black piming powder.

3. Find out what the manufacturers are doing with the new flintlock "pellet shooters" and copy their work. If they are getting pellets to ignite at all it is a miricle and they should be even better with lose synthetic. You should be able to duplicate what they are doing in any flintlock rifle and get consistant ignition with synthetic and improved ignition with real black.

:imo:

 

[roundball]

I'm seriously considering a flinter but where I live getting ANY black powder, much less 4f for priming, is impossible. I keep hearing second hand stories that Pyrodex isn't all that reliable for priming. Is there a reliable alternative to 4f for priming?

You can order a mixed set of a few cans from places like Graf & Sons in Missouri...get a can of 4F, a few cans of 3F, a few cans of 2F and you'll be all set. The trick is to get enough cans so the shipping & hazmat fees are apportioned across as many as possible to reduce the cost.

The best price of course comes from a full case, and J&J Pyrotechnics in Moscow, PA delivers a case of 25 cans to me for $227 and mixes the cans any way I want. ($9/LB)[url] Goex.com[/url] shows where their distributors are located, several are out West.

 

[Stumpkiller]

[url] Goex.com[/url] shows where their distributors are located, several are out West.

I think his problem is that no matter how you drive a truck you can't get to Alaska without it becoming an international trip. Canadia is all nervous and jerky about dangerous stuff. Blackpowder, electricity, soap, etc.

(Sorry Daryl - couldn't resist)

 

[roundball]

It goes FedEx, and pretty sure through the air

 

[JerryToth]

Hi BrownBear;

I have some 4F and some 3F, however I charge my load with 2F as it gives my rifle's best accuracy. For the last 6 months or so, I've just been carrying one horn and charging the pan with 2F. And you know what,... even though everyone says that 4F and 3F are better, honestly I can't tell much difference. It seems like if my follow through is correct, the couple of thousandths of a second just don't matter.... Now if your follow through isn't right, everything's gonna fall apart with your flintlock shooting anyway!

If you only have 2F, my advice would be to use 2F.

Lots of guys use 3F in both barrel and pan... If your rifle is most accurate with the main charge of 3F, then go that direction.

Unavailability of 4F is NOT a big problem.

Also, if you ever get ONE can of 4F, it will last almost forever, just charging with it.

Regards,

Ironsights Jerry.

 

[frenchfusil]

Kwai kwai Bear,
You should get in contact with Swanny of Nor' West Company, they are out of alaska and they do sell black powder his e-mail is [email protected] Also for my flint smoothbore I use 3f for both my prime and main charge.

Hope this helps,

Tristyn J Cramer

 

especially soap.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I'm seriously considering a flinter but where I live getting ANY black powder, much less 4f for priming, is impossible.

Forum member Swanny, at Nor'West Company in Alaska, sells Black Powder. Tell him "the Muzzleloading Forum sent me". ::


Nor' West Company Web Site

 

[kentucky bucky]

You could "Bite the bullet" so to speak and pay the high shipping cost and order yourself enough to last a long while. Just make or buy an appropriate storage box. Many people swear that 4f isn't necessary and that 3f will do it all (prime & charge). I'm facing that shortly and very well may try the 3f route. It would be worth it to me just for the good ole BP smell!!


:m2c:

 

despite the dire warnings of many who told me it would not work, I prime with 3f all of the time with few problems--and those I don't think are due to the pan charge. I have read somewhere that tests were run proving that 3f and even 2f work just as good and fast as 4f. The old time rifle powder was 3f and old timers primed with it. The idea of 4f and priming with it in a separate horn is relatively modern one. Remember the Brown Bess and the Charleville muskets? The standard loads were paper cartridges full of probably 2f grade powder. The standard procedure was to load and prime out of the same cartridge...the military wouldn't have done this if it didn't work on the battlefield..... :m2c:

 

Well, of course it works - anyting that will flash-off in the pan will work, as long as it also flashes through the vent hole.
; 3F, 2F, single F will all work, but they aren't as fast as 4F. If they were, 4F would be on the market. 4F is faster in all locks. As well, it's coating doesn't seem to be as thick as the other powders, and this also improves ignition speed.
; This has come up before, and 3F(or 2F) can be slightly ground, with a pestle and mortor, to a finer granulation and will work just as well or perhaps better then 4F, depending on your skill at grinding it. Small quantities, and be careful. Some locks don't like 3F for priming and will rarely fire with 2F. Pistol locks, which spark less than rifle locks, sometimes have trouble without 4F.
: Will 2 or 3F work - yes, of course they will. Are they as good as 4F? - No, they aren't, but they will work, just as the space-saver spare tires, "work". They aren't as good, but will get the job done.

 

I got some Null-B and nooooooooobody else does. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: