Priming Powder, 4F or ?

[Greenjoytj]

Priming the pan with powder courser than 4 FG causes too many large flaming granules to be thrown from the pan. The pan flash is very difficult to ignore, and having large longer burning granules getting tossed nearer to my face is quite off putting.
So I prime with 4fg the much smaller burning granules don’t get tossed as far and burn out much faster.

 

[Howard Pippin]

This is probably a dumb thing to say, but why should anybody really care which you use to prime with. That's similar to the argument that 3F is superior over 2F in your rifle. It probably is, but it is your own business. I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but this argument is not gonna go away anytime soon. To add a little fuel, has anybody ever primed with fake powder and have it work?

 

[Thingamajiggy]

I'm in the camp of use 4F if available. You're out hunting and forgot primer, then use what you have for main charge and go about your business, any delay won't be felt by what your shooting at. I have enough 4F to last me my lifetime so I'll use it. If I didn't have 4F but had 3F, I would just use 3F and not worry about it.

 

[jdw276]

Priming the pan with powder courser than 4 FG causes too many large flaming granules to be thrown from the pan. The pan flash is very difficult to ignore, and having large longer burning granules getting tossed nearer to my face is quite off putting.
So I prime with 4fg the much smaller burning granules don’t get tossed as far and burn out much faster.

And that is included in the article I linked in my prior note. A chart on accuracy by prime is also included. There is also an article on a two hole vent liner and its impact on fps. Load compression and one of the mlforum most favorites, lead vs leather wrap!!!!!!

 

[Juice Jaws]

What you think is happening is not what is actually happening.

Finally the great debate is solve, 3F or 4F thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My experience is the same as yours. I can't understand why folks say there is no delay when using 3F or 2F to prime with. I shoot matches. I shoot a lot and there most definitely is a delay.

Because your observations are quite valid..., for what you've shot and what you've seen and experienced.

All we are doing here is proving that flintlock locks and rifle barrels like different things, even when they appear to be identical, eh folks?

4F is often very slow for me..., What?? You see folks we get a lot of ground fog, and misty mornings, here in Maryland where I hunt. The deer and the squirrels and bunnies are found in areas near some water, and I've been in the woods in fog when it's noplace else but the creek bottom.

I've found that with my locks, be they American, Italian, or India origin, the 4F seems to like to soak up moisture, while using 3Fg for both prime and main charge, means no worries. Range time is hunting accuracy practice time for me, so I use on the range what I use in the woods.

3Fg for me.

LD

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

I'm a fair-weather shooter. I got badly hurt in '10 and inclement weather messes up my joints. I can't see much of a difference with the ignition speed but the 3f might be a bit brighter (not sure how to explain) and the groups are a bit looser. Might be imagination, peculiarity of my specific rifle, a dog-day at the range. I could spend my time figuring it out, or use 4f, so...

 

[Mwal]

I forgot my 4f flask on Tuesday so I primed with 2f and really didn't notice a difference. When this Can of 4f is gone I may just prime from the main horn and call it a day. I did notice that the flash pan was much cleaner with no black goop. I fired approx 25 shots and didn't wipe pan out or frizzen face. With 4f it definitely gets gooped up after a couple shots.
Mwal

 

[hanshi]

I've always preferred and used 4F for prime; 4F works in all my primers and 3F doesn't. I never notice a difference with 4F vs 3F mainly because I pay little attention to the pan flash. I know many have trouble with 4F getting wet and prefer 3F or 2F in the pan for that very reason. The vast majority of my hunts took place in my native Georgia where it is very humid about all the time. I hunted in varied weather including downpours - I should mention I used to be super hard-headed - and the 4F prime never got wet as long as the gun remained unfired. Once fired the pan has to be cleaned out really well or the next panful will be immediate soup.

I'm virtually out of 4F but have used 3F with complete satisfaction and have no problem using it instead of 4F. For this reason (partly) and others, 3F is what I normally in the bore with all calibers. But with 3F I am forced to prime out of a small tube.

 

[IanH]

A couple people understood what I posted and one most definitely did not. There is no discernable difference in LOCK TIME between 3F and 4F, all else being equal, but there is a heck of a difference to most shooters in the perceived characteristics of the pan flash.

 

[PathfinderNC]

In case anyone wants to read even more discussions and information on PRIMING POWDER, here ya go:
(Just a partial list)
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/ffffg-powder-priming.160053/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...r-a-first-flintlock-rifle.168945/post-2428276https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-for-flintlock.162637/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/priming-powder-issue.151385/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-for-flintlock.162637/post-2403381https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/priming-powder.145159/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/4f-priming-powder.154157/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/2f-prime-in-the-pan.170491/post-2453280https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-for-flintlock.162637/post-2369569https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/sourcing-4f.159385/post-2267825https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...-penetrating-shooting-fun.160402/post-2289219https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/2f-for-everything.166115/post-2376988https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-question.164676/post-2353287https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/4f-priming-powder.154157/post-2181766https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/when-did-4f-powder-come-into-use-for-pan-priming.146753/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/priming-powders-put-to-an-unusual-test.145210/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/4f-priming-powder.154157/post-2323637

 

[TDM]

I
I think we’re at that point now. But it gave everybody something to post about.

 

[Bill Bryan]

I shoot a .50 cal flintlock Hawken reproduction. The touchhole liner has been drilled out and shot so much that it's almost self priming when I use 3F. 3F and 4F don't seem to make much difference with a fresh flint. Bill

 

[bigted]

I wonder if the speed thing has as much to do with granulation as touch hole diameter. When I opened my touch hole, the ignition speed increases dramatically. 4F 3F or 2F seem to ignight the main charge about the same. On one I even counter sunk just slightly the outside of the hole, this seemed like it even improved my ignition even more

 

[bigted]

Bill, funny we both seem to type at the same time and making the same point ... lol

 

[Rob M.]

I
I think we’re at that point now. But it gave everybody something to post about.

Oh my goodness ... Thank you very much for this post. Most excellent of you .

 

[Rob M.]

I wonder if the speed thing has as much to do with granulation as touch hole diameter. When I opened my touch hole, the ignition speed increases dramatically. 4F 3F or 2F seem to ignight the main charge about the same. On one I even counter sunk just slightly the outside of the hole, this seemed like it even improved my ignition even more

Exactly !!!

 

[Rob M.]

Always prime with 4F powder , esp. in damp weather , no more than 1.2 ounce , push the powder away from the touch hole approximately 1mm , even better if you separate the powder and make two rows in the pan . The ignition will be exceedingly fast , much faster than any other granulation would be and very little flash for less distraction from your sights/ target .

 

[TDM]

Oh my goodness ... Thank you very much for this post. Most excellent of you .

Well there didn’t seem to be any new threads going at the time and I threw this in to good effect.

 

[Rob M.]

Well there didn’t seem to be any new threads going at the time and I threw this in to good effect.

Very appropriate ....and the little VDO is hilarious !/ . I'll never waste my breath on ignition problems again , trying to help folks . Its like talking to a brick wall .