Alvin York Memorial Shoot

[RDavis]

I am thinking of attending the York Memorial Shoot next year. Has anyone been before? What was your experience at the shoot?

 

By all means go!! Win, lose or draw you won't have a better time anywhere. The people the atmosphere the competition the whole experience is beyond description. Just be prepared to be awed by what you will be a part of.
Mark

 

[Ephraim]

The rain the mud the cold the wind. It is wonderful time you will have a ball.
Ephraim

 

[RonT]

Well, all those conditions seem not to affect the shooting... :shocked2:
R

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well, all those conditions seem not to affect the shooting... :shocked2:
R

For some reason they affected mine and that of many others this year. I dropped way down from what I shot the last two years. It seemed to help some shooters. Since we only shot 6 matches, we'll never know what kind of true strings would have been shot, but those at the top still shot some impressive strings.

But no matter what the conditions, everybody oughta go and try their hand at least once. It's the Super Bowl of over-the-log shooting. And hopefully I'll be there again in March with my mule ear for another go at it. :grin:

 

[RDavis]

I have decided to go. I don't have any hopes of winning or even coming close. I plan to shoot my Investment Arms 45 cal.. My son also wants to shoot but we only have one rifle. Does everyone shoot at once or will it be possible for us to shoot at different times and share the rifle. Since he is only 10, I will have to load for him.

 

[Tumblernotch]

It will be very difficult for the two of you to do it with one gun. Not impossible, but very hard. You first have to shoot for a group, usually 3 to 5 rounds, sometimes more. You would both have to be able to do this in a 20 to 30 minute period. Then, when you post your score target, you have a few minutes to fire one shot. If you are both familiar with your rifle and can get a decent group to post your target behind without any problems such as a dryball or other mechanical glitches within that timeframe, you might get by with it. Each match lasts as long as there is a loaded gun on the line. If you are the last one shooting, you may feel pressured and rush a shot, but that happens to about everyone at one point or another. If you and your son practice between now and then and get a routine going, you will make it a lot easier on yourself. Or, you may find that it won't work.

Remember, this type of shooting is different than any other target shooting us muzzleloaders normally do. With practice it is very rewarding and fun, but it can still be extremely frustrating at times. Without practice it can be just extremely frustrating, especially at a big match like the York shoot.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I hope you make it down and get involved. I just want to prepare you so you can do your best and get the most enjoyment from the experience that you can. Especially when you have a young son who is interested in the sport. I hope to see you there!

 

[redwing]

How is the Alvin York shoot set up? What are the targets ranges Etc.? Where and when is it held? What type of fire arms are used? I have never seen any Info. on this match. :thumbsup:

 

[Tumblernotch]

How is the Alvin York shoot set up? What are the targets ranges Etc.? Where and when is it held? What type of fire arms are used? I have never seen any Info. on this match. :thumbsup:

I'll try to explain how these shoots are done. Others who attend these can add anything I might forget.

First of all, the York shoot, due to its size, is done in two parts on the same day. It's best to pre-register so that you can be sure you can get in since there is a 230 shooter limit. The last few years hasn't been a problem since the total shooters present has been a little less. But it's best to play it safe.

Once you're there you'll need to get your rifle inspected. You cannot have adjustable sights. They need to be fixed iron sights. You can use shaders either over the sights or the full length of the barrel. The sights cannot be closer than 6 inches from the breech. The rifle must be a traditional style, either flint or percussion. The percussion rifles can also be either underhammer or mule ear. Many shooters, probably most of them from what I've seen, use what we call a chunk gun. This type of rifle has a long, heavy barrel, often as much as 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" across the flats and as much as 60" long, though most run about 42" to 48". The calibers vary, from .40 to over .60 caliber, though most probably run from .45 to .55. There are both full and halfstock rifles, some with ramrods, some without. There is less drop in the buttstock than your average rifle which makes it better for shooting in the prone position. However, many shooters use their long rifles or halfstocks and shoot very well. Another thing about the calibers. A .40 cal rifle will do just as good as a .50 at the range we shoot, but the heavier calibers tend to handle windy conditions better. I did my best chunk shooting ever in Ohio this year with a .40 cal. long rifle. But a heavy barreled rifle with a cant block is much more stable and you will probably be more consistent with it than you will be with a light rifle.

This brings us to the "chunk". The old time shooters shot prone over a log, hence "over the log" shooting. After a time, they would bring their own "chunk" of wood which was of a height that they could shoot over comfortably. That's what we do. Some shooters have taken this concept further by making adjustable wooden frames to rest their rifles on, some of which can be pinned to the ground and even have spirit levels incorporated in them. After getting your chunk set up, you put down a mat or blanket or tarp to lay on while shooting. This will keep you dry in most cases, though this past March at York that was a dream, not reality. (It was somewhat damp this year).

Next, you need a target frame. The size varies, but I'd make one at least 15" square. Mine is 20", but it's up to the shooter's personal tastes I guess. It has two legs usually made of rebar or some kind of iron rod so you can stick it in the ground. Mine looks like a capital H with a crossbar closing in the top forming a square for the target. You staple a piece of cardboard to the wooden frame. Double wall cardboard is best, but single wall will work. This target frame will be placed 60 yards from the firing line.

Now comes the fun part. You need a sighter. This is a target of your choosing. It can be any shape or color, but it must be something that you can easily and consistantly line your sights up on. This goes hand in hand with how you hold your rifle and your body position from shot to shot. To me, this is the hardest part. You must be consistent and I can't say that enough. To be really good you need to lie down in the same spot every time in the same way, grip your rifle the same, line your sights up the same way, not to mention loading your rifle the same all the time. Consistency. That brings me to that other word: Practice, practice, practice. Most of us don't do that enough. I know I don't.

I should have mentioned that unless you plan to load from your pouch, it's good to have a portable loading bench and a box with all the tools you think you might need, including a good range rod, ball puller, &c. A spotting scope or a good pair of field glasses is invaluable.

Now for the shooting match. After you've signed in, the people at registration will give you a stack of 10 targets. These targets have a solid black bullseye about 3" in diameter with a crosshair on it. There are lines at the bottom with your competitor number on one and you fill in the others; match number, caliber and so on. Get these filled out and ready. You won't need them just yet. You've got some shooting to do first.

After you've set up your sighter and all is ready, there will be a short safety meeting and some rules will be discussed and such. Then the range officer will open the range. You load your rifle and go to the line using the same safety rules as you would at any range. Keeping the muzzle down range, you lie down behind your chunk, take aim and fire at your sighter. We generally have from 20 to 30 minutes to shoot a group, usually at least 30 minutes. What you are wanting to do is get all your balls in the smallest ragged hole you can. If you can get them all in an area no bigger than quarter or 50 cent piece, you are a fortunate soul indeed! From what I've seen, many of our targets look like a buckshot load hit them. But if all goes well, you should have at least 2 or 3 holes touching. If you get one group like this, that's great. Sometimes, if the wind is acting up or the light changes, you may have 2 or even 3 groups. That's bad. But what you're trying to do is get a tight group to place your target behind. Yes, I said behind. You want to line up the center of the crosshairs on the target with the center of that big hole. Keep in mind that it doesn't matter where your balls hit, as long as they hit in the same place every time. That's why I emphasized that you have a sighter that you can line up on easily. If your gun shoots low or to one side, that's even better because you won't shoot up yor sighter and make it harder to see. Many shooters knock their sights over one way or the other because of this. My rifle shoots low. I can tell you that if you use the rifle you hunt with or shoot offhand targets with, it will most likely have a different POI when you shoot over a chunk.

If you're lucky, you may get a good enough group to work with after just 3 shots or so. Most likely you'll shoot between 5 and 10. Just remember, you only have no more than 30 minutes to do it in.

After the range officer has closed the range, you will go out and post your target. One little tip here. I staple the upper portion of my sighter to the cardboard but use push pins for the lower part. You can use pushpins for all of it if you want. Keep a small tin of pins handy and when you post your target, you can take the pins out of your sighter near where you put your target and lift the sighter away from the backer a little. This makes it easier to insert the target. After you've shot it up bit, you'll see what I mean. Just slide the target under the sighter and line up the crosshairs with the best looking group, preferably your latest shots. After everybody gets back to the line and the range is opened again you shoot again, hopefully hitting in the same place you did the last time. In all, you'll fire 10 rounds at this, changing the target after each shot. There will be someone about halfway between the targets and the line to take your target to the scorers. We generally give a couple of bucks to these kids for a tip after we're done.

If you find that your balls start wandering away from where you posted your target, you will want to move your target to correspond with the hits. This is called "Chasing the X". Let me tell you something. If you do, there's about a 90% chance that your very next shot will go right where you moved the target from. You might get lucky and it'll pay off, but I wouldn't bet on it. If your down to the last match or two and you're consistantly hitting in another place, it may be best to move. I have a couple of times and it helped a little. But most of the time it was a big mistake.

After all is over, we pack up our gear and head to camp to clean our guns and get a bite to eat or check out the vendors. Late in the afternoon, we start gathering around the scoring tents and pick up our targets. A little later, everyone gathers at the wagon (Bring a chair) and they'll read off where everyone placed and give out the awards, steak, pork loin, gun barrels, horns, doodads, shooting boxes, &c. If you did real good, you can take some steak or pork back to camp for supper (with plenty left over to take home) and maybe even another prize. If you didn't you do so good you still get some hamburger (though for some reason this year me and my compadres didn't even get that because they ran out).

While you're there, it's a good chance to talk to chunk shooters who have been doing this for years. Sgt. York's sons Andy and Edd are usually around for a time and several of his grandsons and nephews shoot in the match. It's also a good opportunity to pick up a barrel or order one from several barrel makers who are there, such as Rice, Jenkins, Burton, Hoyt and Griffith. There are several rifle stocks and quite a few parts available as well. And just seeing that beautiful country is worth the drive. It is located in northeast Tennessee near the Kentucky line in Fentress County, SSW of Lexington, KY and NW of Knoxville. The match is held on the last Saturday in March. It's best to get there on Friday. We camp right on the grounds (no hookups). This is on part of York's farm and is near the museum and gristmill. It is well worth the trip. We have people from all over the U.S. and Canada who have made it a yearly pilgrimage and a good time is had by all. I must add that given the time of year, it's best to be prepared for any kind of weather. It's been hot, cold, wet and snowy. This year it was very wet. But, that's part of the game.

Also, this is not the only chunk gun match being held. There are several others in Indiana, Michigan, West Virginia, Ohio and Missouri, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and no doubt other states. This is just the BIG EVENT.

I know this ran long, but I hope I've given enough info to help you fellers out. I'm sure some of the others on here can give you more information and probably more clearly. It's a lot of fun and all I can say is, show up and see what it's all about.
:thumbsup:

 

[RonT]

Robert,
Thank you for the explanation, you cleared up a question I've wondered about. Have been to the York website a couple times but nowhere got the drift of target posting until the word "behind" the spotter.
Noticed you mentioned Ohio chunk shoots. could you elaorate on where and when?
TIA,
R

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well Ron, I've only been to one of the Ohio shoots so far and that was at Bill Large's JJJJ Ranch last month. It was a small event and the only one I've ever won. It is near Ironton. There are other ones held near Xenia and Lamira, but I've never had the chance to go yet.

I need to get in touch with some of the other shooters from Ohio and get a better schedule of events.

By the way, I used to be puzzled by guys talking about putting the target behind the sighter myself. Didn't figure it out until someone actually showed me how it was done.

 

[RonT]

Saw the W.M.Large shoot on another thread here, would like to attend at least one chunk shoot next year.
Thanks again for the clarification.
R

 

Ron,
What the Ranger said is a really good description of how we do it. 2 things come to mind; first the match is typically shot at 60 yards and second, you and your son will be able to shoot the York. The match is split into 2 relays, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. You could shoot in one and he could shoot in the other. Depending on where you are there are several good chunk shoots in Ohio and also in east central Indiana. The schedules will be coming out.
Mark
Mark

 

[RonT]

Thanks Mark, will keep an eye on this thread and forum for Ohio shoots.
R

 

[Tumblernotch]

Ron,
What the Ranger said is a really good description of how we do it. 2 things come to mind; first the match is typically shot at 60 yards and second, you and your son will be able to shoot the York. The match is split into 2 relays, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. You could shoot in one and he could shoot in the other. Depending on where you are there are several good chunk shoots in Ohio and also in east central Indiana. The schedules will be coming out.
Mark
Mark

You know, I should have thought of that when I replied. He could shoot the first relay and his son the second. That way he could get familiar with the way it's done and then devote his attention to helping the boy when his turn comes. I'm used to all the other shoots being shot in one relay. This one has two. I'm glad you pointed that out.
:thumbsup:

 

[redwing]

Thanks Ranger and all you fellows for the Info. on this shoot. I have seen posting on this but never knew anything about it. :thumbsup:

 

Ranger,
Nobody can think of everything. I have taken my grandson to shoots, chunk and offhand, and just coached him but didn't shoot myself. Getting the youngsters involved is what it is "almost" all about for us grey beards. When he is shooting I don't want to be distracted from helping him and seeing that everything he does is safe for the whole range. The York is one of the shoots where you can both compete, safely.
Mark

 

[Tumblernotch]

I'm surprised that I could remember anything. I wouldn't be surprised if I left something else out in my description.

I don't often get the opportunity to help a new shooter, but when I do, I find that I have to stop whatever I'm doing so I don't make a mistake myself. I don't multitask very well. The York shoot is unique in this respect. With two relays, a feller can shoot and then help another one out. Personally, if I was a new shooter or I was coaching a new shooter at an event, I would prefer a smaller, more laid back event. But the York has that advantage, plus a wealth of experience available.

 

Ranger,
I agree with you. The York is the superbowl of chunk shoots and can be intimidating the first time out.
Mark

 

[shortstring]

Go to American Historic Services websight. It's Mel Hankla's sight & there's a hand full of photos & the results from the York matches.

Paul