Am I ready to shoot my Kentucky pistol when I get it put together?

[SomeDude]

Okay so I've got a Traditions Kentucky pistol kit on the way, and originally I had planned on getting it nice and pretty looking before worrying about getting anything to shoot with it. However, I noticed how supplies are dwindling, so decided I should order some powder and bullets now before they became impossible to find later. After doing that I figured, "Well what the heck, I'll just get everything now and shoot it a little bit sooner than I thought." Problem is I couldn't find percussion caps, but I read that I can use those little plastic ones for kids' cap guns so I grabbed some of those. Just wondering if I've got everything else that would be needed to shoot and clean it at least a couple of times while supplies normalize, or if I should just get ready to be patient. (Not one of my strongsuits)

Here's what I got:

Goex FFFg black powder
Thompson Center 230 gran .45 caliber hollw-points with .50 cal sabot
Some caps for a kid's cap gun (since I couldn't find percussion caps)
Mink Oil
2.5" diameter cotton patches
Hoppes #9 gun oil

I haven't got a powder measure yet, but there were quite a few on the shelf at my local store so I figure I can wait until next payday for that.

Am I overlooking anything else?

 

[Phil Coffins]

A cleaning jag and cleaning patches. You’d do better with round ball with pillow ticking patches.

 

[SomeDude]

A cleaning jag and cleaning patches. You’d do better with round ball with pillow ticking patches.

Well I intended to use the patches I mentioned for cleaning. Am I supposed to use patches with a sabot too? I tried to find ball ammunition but couldn't.

I was under the impression I could just put a patch on the end of the ram rod and clean with that? I saw some guys on YouTube doing it like that. I was wondering how they managed to avoid the patch coming off and getting stuck in the barrel though. Is that where a jag comes in?

 

[Daveboone]

Yep, thats what the jag is for (a tight fit to keep the patch on). But what is the actual caliber of your pistol, .45 or 50 cal? If your pistol is .45, then you need balls for .45 and patches. If it is 50 cal. then you could use 50 cal. sabots with the .45 hollowpoints, but it is by far the expensive way of doing it. You do not use patches with sabots(but I get it, if that was all you could find. It gets you shooting). Shooting round ball the projectile is a tad smaller than the bore, and you are using a specific patch (lubricated) of a given thickeness to make a tight fit in the rifling.
Probably for out of a pistol accuracy would be a moot point.
Pick up an appropriate caliber ball puller too. You will need it. Keep looking for your caps. I wasnt finding any locally, then found a couple places with them, as well as round balls. This web site is pretty traditional...cap and ball, you get the hairy eyeball talking about sabots, inlines, etc. . I think if anything the supply is starting to open up a bit.

 

[deermanok]

Your a bit confused my friend. The other poster meant "shooting " patches with a round, .440 diameter lead ball. Your pistol is more or less better suited to that type of projectile.
And yes, the cleaning jag is designed to have a cloth cleaning patch wrapped around it. You can use a regular firearms slotted patch holder as well.
You can find # 11 percussion caps online if you do a bit of searching.

 

[deermanok]

Just to correct part of what I said. I see that you have a 50 caliber pistol. A .490 round ball is what you would need. My own 50 cal pistol shoots best with the patched ball and 35 grains of 3f powder. Just to add that a heavy conical bullet with a strong powder charge can crack the wood stock of a pistol.

 

[vervillev]

I have the pistol in completed form. It should be .50 caliber, 1and 20 twist. So...patched roundball might be preferred. I haven't shot mine yet but am looking for some load data from other users on this pistol. Should be a lot of fun to shoot. I haven't heard of sabots being shot in these pistols and agree a heavier projectile with a stout load might cause harm to the stock.

 

[SomeDude]

Yep, thats what the jag is for (a tight fit to keep the patch on). But what is the actual caliber of your pistol, .45 or 50 cal? If your pistol is .45, then you need balls for .45 and patches. If it is 50 cal. then you could use 50 cal. sabots with the .45 hollowpoints, but it is by far the expensive way of doing it. You do not use patches with sabots(but I get it, if that was all you could find. It gets you shooting). Shooting round ball the projectile is a tad smaller than the bore, and you are using a specific patch (lubricated) of a given thickeness to make a tight fit in the rifling.
Probably for out of a pistol accuracy would be a moot point.
Pick up an appropriate caliber ball puller too. You will need it. Keep looking for your caps. I wasnt finding any locally, then found a couple places with them, as well as round balls. This web site is pretty traditional...cap and ball, you get the hairy eyeball talking about sabots, inlines, etc. . I think if anything the supply is starting to open up a bit.

Oh whoops I forgot to mention it was the .50

Okay thanks, glad I cleared that up about the jag before losing a patch down the barrel! I'll look for ball pullers too.

Well I hope you're right about it opening up soon. I sure picked the worst time I could to get into this.

Your a bit confused my friend. The other poster meant "shooting " patches with a round, .440 diameter lead ball. Your pistol is more or less better suited to that type of projectile.
And yes, the cleaning jag is designed to have a cloth cleaning patch wrapped around it. You can use a regular firearms slotted patch holder as well.
You can find # 11 percussion caps online if you do a bit of searching.

I Googled quite a bit yesterday and could only find blackpowderva selling them, and wasn't sure what size I'd need as they sell them as pistol and musket size. I'm guessing musket since the website says these Kentucky pistols take a No. 11 and the only other size I see is 10. But before I could even ask around about that I realized I couldn't afford them until next pay day.

Just to correct part of what I said. I see that you have a 50 caliber pistol. A .490 round ball is what you would need. My own 50 cal pistol shoots best with the patched ball and 35 grains of 3f powder. Just to add that a heavy conical bullet with a strong powder charge can crack the wood stock of a pistol.

Ah, see, glad I asked first because I was worried about whether the stock on this could hold up to heavier charges.

What thickness of patches would be best, or is that more of a thing individual to each gun?

I have the pistol in completed form. It should be .50 caliber, 1and 20 twist. So...patched roundball might be preferred. I haven't shot mine yet but am looking for some load data from other users on this pistol. Should be a lot of fun to shoot. I haven't heard of sabots being shot in these pistols and agree a heavier projectile with a stout load might cause harm to the stock.

I believe it was listed as 1:16 twist. Not that I know how that affects things.

Yeah I had one a long time ago, and remember the wood that fastens the front brass piece to the front of the barrel and holds it down is a little thin. In my research lately I saw someone post a picture of theirs having been sheared off by a heavy charge.

I was thinking about ways to modify it a bit to be able to shoot heavier charges, but not sure if there's really a safe and elegant way to do it, let alone a good reason. Having a magnum Kentucky pistol would be kinda cool though.

I've got a chronograph and plan to try out some different loads with it so I'll be happy to share the data I get. I'm just gonna need to get decent shooting it first so my chronograph doesn't become a casualty. I'm guessing it will produce too much smoke to shoot over it point-blank.


Well thanks for all the info guys. I think I should do some more homework and have a little more patience waiting for supplies to get in stock.

 

[deermanok]

For patches, I would say to get dry, unlubed 100% cotton. .010" thick. There's about a million different recipes for homemade lube. When I'm target shooting, I use what's called a "spit" patch.
Lightly dampened with saliva.

 

[Ian Straus]

........
Goex FFFg black powder
Thompson Center 230 gran .45 caliber hollw-points with .50 cal sabot
Some caps for a kid's cap gun (since I couldn't find percussion caps)
Mink Oil
2.5" diameter cotton patches
Hoppes #9 gun oil

I haven't got a powder measure yet, but there were quite a few on the shelf at my local store so I figure I can wait until next payday for that.

Am I overlooking anything else?

A pistol rod of course - when (not if) you some day have to pull a ball you'll wish you had a pistol range rod and not just the under-barrel rod.
A bore brush, especially if you are still going to shoot those sabots.
Some non-petroleum based bore cleaner. Hot water is good when you are through shooting, but the soapy solutions add a lot to it and are also good for cleaning between shots.
Patches: well for round ball you will want to use different (sturdier) cloth for patching the bullet and for cleaning. A foot of mattress ticking from a cloth store will give you plenty of bullet patching material. Flannel from the same cloth store's remainder shelf will give you cleaning material.

Yeah, you will want some real percussion caps.

 

[Eric Krewson]

You need to watch some youtube videos on loading and shooting a muzzleloader.

Here is a start, he is using musket primers which is a little different than #11 primers.


Another;

 

[SomeDude]

For patches, I would say to get dry, unlubed 100% cotton. .010" thick. There's about a million different recipes for homemade lube. When I'm target shooting, I use what's called a "spit" patch.
Lightly dampened with saliva.

Well, I found some .015" thick unlubed ones.

I think I might opt for the "spit" patch route too. I was looking up the mink oil I have, and it's not pure mink oil. It's that Kiwi brand with a few other things in it, including silicone, and I can't really seem to find information on whether that's good or bad.

A pistol rod of course - when (not if) you some day have to pull a ball you'll wish you had a pistol range rod and not just the under-barrel rod.
A bore brush, especially if you are still going to shoot those sabots.
Some non-petroleum based bore cleaner. Hot water is good when you are through shooting, but the soapy solutions add a lot to it and are also good for cleaning between shots.
Patches: well for round ball you will want to use different (sturdier) cloth for patching the bullet and for cleaning. A foot of mattress ticking from a cloth store will give you plenty of bullet patching material. Flannel from the same cloth store's remainder shelf will give you cleaning material.

Yeah, you will want some real percussion caps.

I found a Thompson Center kit with a jag, ball puller, brush, etc. all included but it doesn't come with a rod. I'm guessing the fittings are more or less universal and I just need to find a rod to attach them to?

I also managed to find some musket caps in town today. Still can't find any No. 10 or No. 11 though. I just ended up buying a Traditions musket nipple to replace the No. 11. I figure at least that way I'll have two different sizes depending on what size caps I'm able to find.

You need to watch some youtube videos on loading and shooting a muzzleloader.

Here is a start, he is using musket primers which is a little different than #11 primers.


Another;

Thanks. I've watched a few different ones before these ones, and I didn't really notice much new information, but to be fair I kind of skipped through the Hickock45 one. That second one seemed a lot more informative.

What I'm still kind of sketchy on is about cleaning between shots. Are you supposed to use a lubed patch with a cleaning jag to do that to keep the patch from getting stuck in the barrel? Hickock mentioned getting one stuck in his but didn't really mention how to avoid it, just that he had to go to a gunsmith to get it out. So I just wanna be extra sure about how to avoid that.


Actually managed to find some round balls in town today too! These must have been in some stockpile somewhere for a while, this box looks pretty old. But I'm guessing old lead balls will shoot just as well as new ones. They don't have any corrosion or anything, and my caliper shows they're the right size. Store had a limit of 1 box per customer, but at least I got 100 and maybe with limits they'll actually be available there.

In addition to that I found a store nearby with quite a nice supply of black powder gear. I guess there's a local muzzle-loading group. Gonna try to figure out how to touch base with them. It's a little bit of a drive, but sure seems like I'll have better luck there than finding this stuff online.

 

[deermanok]

For cleaning between shots, I use any old material I can get. Old Tshirts, whatever. I like to use a slotted patch holder. I cut the material about a inch and a half square. Place it in the holder and lightly spray it with windex. Some people like to use windshield washer fluid.
Ramrod attachments are usually a 10/32 thread. Some attachments are 8/32.

 

[Ian Straus]

About the rod and attachments -
about what deermanct said above:
I believe that Thompson Center kit will have 10-32 thread. So you will want to get a 10-32 threaded pistol rod if that is true.

Me, I use jags, not a slotted patch holder. I think the jag does a lot better job of scrubbing the barrel, and black powder is dirtier than modern smokeless for which i was used to using slotted jags. When in doubt as to how dirty the barrel is hit it with the wire brush first. But if you clean between shots the jag will be the only thing you use for that.

And about the mink oil - there's the leather dressing and there's the "mink oil" sold for shooting. I suspect they are NOT the same. There are a lot of muzzle loading shooting lubes, non petroleum based. Get one.
Or if you are driven to make your own, use a mix of beeswax and olive oil, or in cold weather Crisco (but Crisco will melt to be like water on a hot day.).
Never use a petroleum based lube, because that combines with black powder residue to leave gunk that WILL get something stuck half way down your bore. I've got a story about that- not now.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You pistol will likely use the #11 percussion caps. You will find the 0.015" patched and lubricated 0.490 balls to be more pleasant to shoot than the bullet and something we avoid talking about unless it's wooden shoes in the clothing forum. A charge of 30 grains volume measure is a good load for your pistol.

 

[Zonie]

I think using a .015 thick patch with the .490 diameter ball will make starting the patch/ball into the bore a bit tough. Although that combinitation is often used in rifles, a rifle is much easier to get a good grip on and resting the butt of the rifle against the ground provides the kind of support getting that tight patch/ball started.

A single shot pistol uses a much lighter powder charge than a rifle so using a thinner patch usually doesn't cause a problem when the gun is shot. The thinner patch also makes starting the patched ball much easier so a lot of stress isn't made in the pistols grip. More than a few pistols have ended up with broken stocks at the grip because the shooter rested the butt of the grip against a loading bench.

Try the .010 thick patches in the pistol. I'm sure they will work great.

 

[Woody Morgan]

Another projectile option is the 250 grain Lee REAL (Rifling Engraved At Loading) conical. I like using 1/8" felt wads soaked in olive oil under the bullet. Nice, simple combination that shoots well. I load 30 grains of 3f Olde Eynesford in a Trapper pistol.

wm.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Look in the classified ads on this site or put a wanted add in the shooting accessories section for .490 round balls. I'll be someone would sell and send some to you pretty cheaply. Then you can shoot the pistol with patched round balls. Many mold their own balls and would probably be happy to help a newbie get some.

 

[LAD]

You will enjoy the shooting but it is so important to learn all you can from a good source to do it safely. I see round ball and patch mentioned. My experience has only been with round ball and patch. I would not shoot anything else in a pistol as that is what they are made to shoot. just saying.