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American fossil asks about English fusil

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Personally , I have not had trouble with shooting pheasants or skeet with flint guns with barrels up to 48" long. I doubt the old timers had much trouble with wing shooting either. Just get your swing going and follow thru, no problemo. I've not had much experience shooting waterfowl, but I can't imagine they are harder to hit than a pheasant.
20 ga is a fine all round gun, but for serious fowling, I'd go with something 16 to 10 guage, and put a little jug choke in it.
 
Mr. Brooks,
Does the "little" jug choke have much affect on PRB accuracy under 50yds, as compared to no choke?
Though we all cherish the (PRB) one inch group, as a matter of practical application, a five inch group at 50yds is adequate for the animals we are hunting.
And of course, a one ounce load of #6s (no choke) takes care of the Grouse, Squirrel, and Hares out to 20yds. Sounds as though the mild jug choke would extend that by a bit?
Best Wishes
 
I personally have never fired RB thru a jug choke. But, I have a customer that has tried it thru several of his flint turkey guns with excellent results. These were from 20 to 10 guage with at least .035 jug choke (which is a lot).
I guess the only way to know how your own gun will shoot will be to try it.
Jug choke will will give you a denser pattern and increase your killing range with shot. My above mentioned customer is an avid turkey hunter and hunts in 8 states. I built him an english fowler with a 10 ga. 50" barrel with about .040 jug in it 6 or 8 years ago. His load is 130gr. of 3fff and 2 5/8 oz. plated shot. he claims this is a killing load out to 50 yards. he has killed turkeys with it out to 46 paces. He says anything closer than 30 yards gets decapitated with this gun.
Wish I had pictures of that gun, it certainly was cool.... I shot this gun several times with that load. What a hooot, you sure had to be hanging on to it or other wise it will definately leave your grasp. ....Oh, and I wouldn't have my back against a tree when you pull the trigger either! :cry:
 
...english fowler with a 10 ga. 50" barrel with about .040 jug in .... Wish I had pictures of that gun, it certainly was cool....

Your dern tootin; :hatsoff: I'd rather have a date with that tall gun than with one of those 5'10" super models.
 
Dear Mr Stumpkiller - you wrote 'The English called them "fowlers" 'cause that's all there was left to shoot on their little barren island. The deer were all wiped out before flintlocks were invented.'

You might be a moderator and may take pleasure in kicking me out as a result of what I write, but what you have written is sheer unadulterated and spiteful rubbish and verges on the style of Anglophobe cr*p I read about on other forums, but hardly expected to see on THIS forum.

For what it's worth...

1. The British use the term fowler to any larger-bore, that is to say, a 10 or 8 gauge shotgun, these days. We do not shoot with black powder muzzle-loaders, but certainly still shoot with BP cartridge guns and punt guns.

2. The UK is most cerainly NOT a little barren island. It's not the Amazonian rain forest, but barren it is not. I am surrounded by almost a 1/4 million acres of the best farmland anywhere in Europe, bar none. As a matter of fact, the principal industry of the UK IS agriculture, and we export a lot to many other countries, including yours. Ever eaten a Granny Smith apple? And how's this? 'British farmers care for more than 70% of the total land area of the UK and produce nearly 65% of the food we eat in this country'.

Barren? I think not, Sir.

3. Far from having had the deer wiped out, it has obviously sailed right over your biased head that between fifteen and twenty thousand or even more foreigners, including many Americans, come over to UK ever year for the sport of deer-stalking, not only in Scotland, but in the many parts of the rest of the British Isles where we have an over-abundance of deer of many species. In fact, the latest figures published by BASC show that we have an alamring surplus of around 310,000 deer this year that need a massive cull to reduce stocks. I draw your attention to this report, if you can be bothered to read it, that is -

"Plan to control deer population

Deer can cause road accidents and damage vegetation
Proposals to control UK wild deer numbers are being published by the government. Some experts believe that the deer population in England is at its highest level for a millennium.

At present, 160,000 deer are culled each year because they are damaging crops and woodland, and are involved in thousands of car accidents.

Peter Watson, from the Deer Initiative charity, said: "The real issue is to ensure that we don't start looking at deer purely as a pest."

He added: "We've got to treat them as an asset because if we don't we devalue their presence in the countryside."

Management future

The government's new strategy follows a public consultation by the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Forestry Commission.

Defra is heralding the strategy as the first modern framework for tackling the management of wild deer.

The say that despite the role of the government, the primary responsibility for deer control will remain with landowners.

Minister Ben Bradshaw said: "Wild deer are beautiful animals and an important part of our cultural landscape and natural heritage.

"With careful and sustainable management, landowners and deer managers will be able to control the impact that the increasing numbers of wild deer are having on our native biodiversity, while conserving and protecting both the countryside and its wildlife, including native deer."

Does THAT look like a lack of deer to you? Having to cull 160,000 deer looks like a whole lot to me.

Let's have less of this unpleasantness when you look over the water at us here. Your snide remarks are not viewed with as much tolerance as you might have been led to think from our usually genteel way of doing things. The least you could have done was to do a little research before you went into print, don't you think?

tac
BASC
GCC
Countryside Commission of UK
British Federation of Rural Landowners
British Wildlife Trust and a number of others...


tac

Ready to go now.
 
Ready to go now.

Please stay.

I had the great pleasure to visit England and Scotland back in '73 and, actually, the northern part of England is very much like the countryside hereabouts. The Catskills and parts of the Adirondack Mountains compare to the highlands. It is no wonder this area was settled by your expatriates; my ancestors, in fact (Pearsall, Bentley and Brigdon).

I was being "cheeky" and ment no disrespect. Just feeling frisky and half-hoping to get a playful response back. I never even brought up the subject of "teeth". And you have to admit the Salisbury Plain is hardly devoid of barrenness. Lets compromise and call it "scrubby".

When I tell you I'm from New York does it bring to mind that this state has more woodlands set aside as parks than the landmass of Ireland.

New York is 54,471 square miles in area. England and Scotland together are 67,390. By way of comparison: a square mile (2.59 sq. Km) is 640 acres. Our Adirondack Park within NY is 2.6 million acres.

Adirondack State Park
adk_4.jpg


It's one of 168 state parks within NY, plus one and a half National Forests.

We don't cull our deer. We kill 'em and eat 'em when we can find 'em. They're still wild.

You are entitled to call all Americans "cowboys" for the remainder of the month and assume all New Yorkers are from "the city" and talk like Sylvester Stallone.

Believe me, I make no more fun of England than I do New Jersey.
 
The least you could have done was to do a little research before you went into print, don't you think?

tac :redthumb:
BASC
GCC
Countryside Commission of UK
British Federation of Rural Landowners
British Wildlife Trust and a number of others...

I think I'll another small slice of apple pie, and hum a few bars of The World Turned Upside-Down.
--Gabby :hatsoff:
BFD
SSAN
Viceroy of my backyard
King of scotch and waffles
Master of the hounds and a number of others...
 
Dear Mr Stumpkiller - thank you, I am

a. well aware of the size of areas of land, viz acres. My family farm in Ontario, and used to have 35,000 acres in Saskatchewan, no doubt the same size as your backyard or perhaps even smaller, but never mind that.

b. well aware of the relative size of the USA, by comparison with the United Kingdom - I used to work in Washington DC, and my family and I are frequent visitors to the PNW, and have to fly over the entire width of the USA to get there.

c. well aware of the opinion that New Yorkers have of New Jersey.

Please note that our deer here in UK are not pets - they are wild, but have to be managed in our rather crowded space, as you so succinctly remind me.

We do not need to be at each other's throats, Mr Stumpkiller, nor do we need to take the piss out each other's nation. Over here we tend to be rather touchy of what we see as criticism of us and our - to you - rather restricted way of life from you over there - an ever-increasing trend for some reason on almost every forum I look at. It is, however, all that we have, and we have to make the best of it.

I choose to ignore your offer of the use of gentle insults -the day I call any of you a 'cowboy', or denigrate the United States in any way, shape of form, and by any means, will be the very first time I have done so in my life. I have served under, with and commanded US personnel, and have trusted them with my life. There is respect there.

Let's move on.

tac

Still ready to go.
 
Dear Mr Stumpkiller - thank you, I am

b. well aware of the relative size of the USA, by comparison with the United Kingdom - I used to work in Washington DC, and my family and I are frequent visitors to the PNW, and have to fly over the entire width of the USA to get there.



tac

Still ready to go.

Tac, Where in the GREAT PNW do you travel to ??? I live near Seattle WA.& for one "WELCOME you.

Over the years, I have had to "bite my Tongue" when dealing W Easterners.Example, they refer to those "hills" back there as Mountains.Heck, you & I both know that even ther tallest, is nothing but a foothill out here. ::You should see an Easterner's face, when you tell him that you drove from Seattle to Vancover BC,just to have a good meal & see a play,then drove home.Of course it maybe that they still think that we ride horses.(of course he may be one of those NYer's that doesen't have a drivers licence.) :kid:

Seriously, Tac "keep a stiff upper lip" & bear with us :front: E-mail me if you like.

Oh yeh, try being a HBC man among a whole "passal of "free trappers. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Puffer
 
:thanks: Dear Mr Puffer - see your pm/e-mail. Whatever.
And many thanks for the invite - we are coming over in March, I think. :RO: Give me a call - you have my e-mail addie now.

tac :grey:
 
Allow me to recap on the original question and gently steer us back on course...

Does English fusil refer to a specific gun type or is it a generalization?
 
To me, English fusil speaks of a light military flintlock smoothbore carried by an officer. The troops had their Brown Besses but officers carried personal arms that were often of smaller gauge (20 ga or so), carried more decoration, better wood, engraving, etc, and were lighter. "Officer's Fusil" is a term commonly used by Neumann in his books illustrating weapons of the American Revolution.
 
To me, English fusil speaks of a light military flintlock smoothbore carried by an officer. The troops had their Brown Besses but officers carried personal arms that were often of smaller gauge (20 ga or so), carried more decoration, better wood, engraving, etc, and were lighter. "Officer's Fusil" is a term commonly used by Neumann in his books illustrating weapons of the American Revolution.

:thanks:I guess I need to focus on the word personal; it would explain why there are not specific models of fusil. Maybe it's a bit like saying a policeman's back-up gun. Most cops must furnish their own. So the main thing that they have in common is that they are small.

I will go toward an English Fowler or trade gun. British Officers purchased their commissions (I hear), and the American ones tended to be well-connected, political, and moneyed. That
 
Does English fusil refer to a specific gun type or is it a generalization?

It is specific when used by the English to describe an English firelock.

My first response to this thread:

In British military parlance a "fusil" is a light musket, and therefore a military firelock.

I got that right out of a 1988 Kit Ravenshear sales brochure - from an Englishman who made guns for the Royal Museum and had the "By Appointment to the Queen" on his letterhead.

Shorter barrel and smaller caliber that the "Standard Model" of the time. If it eas of "Standard" caliber with a short barrel it would be a carbine.
 
:thanks:I guess I need to focus on the word personal; it would explain why there are not specific models of fusil. Maybe it's a bit like saying a policeman's back-up gun. Most cops must furnish their own. So the main thing that they have in common is that they are small.

I will go toward an English Fowler or trade gun. British Officers purchased their commissions (I hear), and the American ones tended to be well-connected, political, and moneyed. That
 
I think Kit had it right here. Although the English did have carbines they were termed so based on a somwwhat smaller bore and the same is true as to American shoulder arms during the Rev.War.The French on the other hand used the term fusil{pronounced "fuzee}to denote any long gun with flint and steel ignition. The term "mousquet" denoted a matchlock musket.
The English borrowed the term to describe a slightly scaled back musket so that the English fusils often resembled a lighter gun with musket styling. The problem is that British officers bought their guns and it is sometimes hard to distinguish between an officer's fusil and a gentleman's fowler.Like officers' pistols the only real difference may lie in the decoration.The finest guns were mounted in either silver or steel with the less expensive guns mounted in brass.I have a 1740's style English gentleman's fowler by Chris Gilgun mounted in brass with an nice openwork brass sideplate and it is typical of a slightly lower grade British fowler/fusil which would have probably been purchased by a junior officer.Check the guns shown in "Battle Weapons of the American Revolution" and "The History of the Weapons of the American Revolution" both by George C. Neuman.
Tom Patton :m2c:
 
I think the English word for a fowler is "gun" ::

We had Fusiliers but fusil is not a name you come across all that much, and when you do it's military.

OTOH, I could be completely wrong :eek:

PS: I wouldn't have the slightest problem calling Stumpkiller a cowboy :blah:
 

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