American Pioneer Powder, aka CleanShot

[Mr. Troll]

Picked up a pound of this stuff today. From what little data I can find, it loads the same, 1:1 as black and Pyrodex...going to try it out tomorrow in both the .36s and in one of the .44s...If it's as good as they claim, I won't have much cleaning to do. Anyone have any experience, good or bad, with this?

 

[azmntman]

I had a bottle. Don't remember using it but cleaned the garage and found a bottle with about 5 shots left, trashed it. I have heard it's no good, not stable, goes bad etc etc. Thats heresay though. I'll wait for your posts regarding it's performance to decide.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

love it for my pistols. I use 20gr 2fg and compress the ball on top of it hard.

With APP, a nice snug fit and heavy seating is what makes the difference.

As for stability, I keep it in my powder horn until I use it all.

Some folks out there can't even put air in a tire so I don't listen to much hear say. I prefer to try it my self.

 

[Mr. Troll]

OK, then I promise I will do a detailed analysis of my results. The web page has very little data, and I called their customer service line, but went to voice mail. The page does say to return unused powder to the original can for long term storage...Seems like it's more geared toward replacement powder for cartridge guns, but it says on the bottle it's safe for use in side locks...I'll find out tomorrow...

 

[Jim S]

I've been using American Pioneer FFFG in my 45 cal. rifles because that's what the gunshop had in stock. It seems to work fine for me. I don't use water to clean the bore now, just 4-5 patches of some old GI bore cleaner and then one with gun oil. I've never had any problems with rust and the bore is nice and shiney.
The can I had is 4 or 5 years old and it still goes bang - I don't think there is any problem with it going bad with age, at least not that I've noticed.

 

[Mr. Troll]

Range report...my experience with APP is a mainly positive one. The only thing I didn't like was that the powder granules poured very slowly through my CVA flask nozzle. Accuracy, consistency, and clean up were amazing. I took 4 pistols with me. My 1858, with the 8" barrel, one of my 1860 Army frankenguns, my 5" .36 Navy brass frame, and my .36 cal 7 1/2" G&G. Pretty windy, but the guns all hit where I wanted them to.
https://goo.gl/photos/3hHTzCu5Qssxq3ibA
Clean up...after 20 rounds through each, was almost like cheating. The instructions say a couple of wet patches followed by an oil patch...yeah, well I cleaned them in the sink with hot water, like I always do, but the black run off that usually gets the sink black just wasn't there...took some pics before I cleaned them...Just a note, but those of you who own an 1858 know how the base pin gets all gummy after 10 shots or so...not this time! To round this out.. The G&G, which has been a problem child,since I got it, performed perfectly...
clean up pics.... https://goo.gl/photos/YzGiXLtDjhmyAszo9
Down side to this stuff? I have a pound and a half of Pyrodex I have to use up.

 

[don hepler]

I wonder how close it is, to Black MZ ? I use Black MZ in my small caliber cap locks and pistols. I pack it tight, and it is very accurate. It is easy to clean, and I can keep on shooting, without swabbing the bores.

 

[Mr. Troll]

I got a call back from the company customer service. They say that it's a 1:1 (by volume) equivalent to standard propellants...They state it doesn't need much compression, but I rammed the balls down hard on all 4 pistols and they all worked quite well. The "bang" is good, but there is little smoke and no smell...Is that good or bad? The pictures show what I had just after running hot water through them. The chambers were actually shiny.... :shocked2:

 

[hawkeye2]

"little smoke and no smell"

Where's the fun in that? :v :grin:

 

[Zonie]

I agree hawkeye2.

I bought a defective can of Navy beans last week and it had the same effect on me.

"Little smoke and no smell."

No fun at all.

 

[graybeard]

I tried a can of the stuff. Cleaned up slick and easy :thumbsup: as advertised. However, half a can left over winter in closet became fireproof in the spring. Have gone pretty much solely to flintlocks these past few years so buy Goex 3F or 2F. graybeard

 

[necchi]

It's actually the most disgusting, difficult faux powder I've ever used in my life. I find it hard to believe people are finding satisfactory results with it. Sure, it cleans up just fine. Just use water,, kind of like other powders.
I'm guessing these same people have no experience with true real life examples of high performance powders,, real or faux.

 

[coloradoclyde]

"little smoke and no smell"

Where's the fun in that? :v :grin:

Exactly!....Might as well shoot a modern gun.

Frankly!.... until they invent a powder that works flawlessly in a flintlock, There is no Black Powder "substitute".

 

[Okie Hog]

I've used all the black powder brands and all the black powder substitutes. I totally detest all black powder.

The APP powders have worked well for me. Started with Clean Shot when it first came out and graduated to APP. Some of my best groups were fired with Jim Shockeys Gold. Pinnacle was a very fine powder and i used it until it became unavailable. Been using Black MZ since it came out.

IMO: Black MZ is the best muzzleloader powder available today.

Sorry you could not make the stuff work.

 

[necchi]

Started with Clean Shot when it first came out and graduated to APP.

Sorry you could not make the stuff work.

Moving to APP was your only option considering Clean Shot was sued by Hogdon for patent breach when they made CleanShot into pellets, I'm not sure if they bankrupted the business or just closed the doors but they stopped making CleanShot shortly after the law suit.
Oh I could make the stuff work, it was/is the hygroscopic issues of an open container that's nasty.
T7 is some great stuff, I used it very successfully for years.
I'm not an absolute "holy black" snob, folks should use what they can get,, I just don't believe APP deserves high praise.

 

[bubba.50]

It's actually the most disgusting, difficult faux powder I've ever used in my life. I find it hard to believe people are finding satisfactory results with it. Sure, it cleans up just fine. Just use water,, kind of like other powders.
I'm guessing these same people have no experience with true real life examples of high performance powders,, real or faux.

have to agree with necchi on this one. it was like loadin' my gun with kitty-litter. ya couldn't pour it at all, had to pour it in a bowl & scoop it to even use the stuff which to me eliminated it for anything other than cartridge ammo. and even then, firin' for groups the first case would be turnin' green before ya got to the third shot.

and I have nothin' against subs. used pyrodex for years before I found a place to get goex and still use it & 777 on a regular basis.

 

[BrownBear]

If you live with any humidity in the air fuggedaboudit. Open a container and use part of it, and within 3 months the stuff clumps like crazy.

When that jug is 6 months old, open a second of the same stuff and shoot them side by side. You can hear the difference! The new can will shoot to spec, while the can that's been opened and stored 6 month sounds real anemic. Poke the shots downrange over a chronograph and you'll see why. With the 50 cal I was using, the fresh batch delivered 1550fps with RB's. Same charge with the 6 month batch fluctuated wildly between 1121 and 1340. And the 75 yard "groups" showed what that did to accuracy.

I figure it's about the most expensive powder on earth for me. However much I shoot the day I open it will be just fine. But I may as well throw away anything I don't shoot up.

 

[azmntman]

I just had the daughter p.u. a lb of goex 2f at Bass pro in Mesa. $33.00? :shocked2: Ya, I will be tryin the Blk MZ soon. If I like it fine, back to sub for percussion and goex for the flinter.

 

[AZbpBurner]

APP's gone. Shoot what you've got, then consider real BP from any of the on-line powder retailers.
http://www.nbc11news.com/content/news/Explosion-and-fire-at-Whitewater-factory-388202072.html

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

They'll be back up. It was basically a chemical fire.

The guy that got injured, hopped onto the forklift and moves 500lbs of powder out before it went up! :hatsoff: http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/quick-action-stops-blast/