American Pioner powder

[haroldpotter]

Has anyone used American Pioneer powder?
Today I stopped at a shooting supply shop and asked for Triple 7 powder. The guy there talked me into American Pioneer by telling me that it was cleaner and more powerful.
Is this true? Should I expect to load down from BP?
It is FFFg for my 45 cal.
Thanks for any info”¦”¦Harold

 

[Dave K]

I have used it and it works ok, but..... It does degrade in time. It is not as easy to light off as black powder and that is why they can sell it easier at places like Wal-Mart. But, if it is all I could buy, I would use it. I do find it cleaner than BP, but it is still does not get you out of cleaning your gun properly. I can't say it is more powerful at all the BP and I have not used any other BP subs., to know how it compares with them.

 

[biliff]

Cleaner it might be (doesn't seem as gritty to me), more powerful it ain't. APP is on the low end of the power scale. 777 is on the high end. I've loaded equal amounts in cartridges (.44 Russian and .45 LC)for CAS and the APP loads are mild recoiling very pleasant loads. The 777 loads recoil to the point they can be down right painful to shoot.

 

[bart_anastasi]

Another thing to remember if you are shooting is that you need to reduce your max load if you use a powder that gives higher bullet speed.

If your gun has a max load of 100 2f BP and you shoot some other substitute. that is say 10% faster your max load of that powder is 90 grains.

You are not really getting a faster max load just using a little less powder to do a specific job.

Plus these powders do not light off as well. When I shoot 777 in my Renegade there is a noticable delay from the time the hammer drops to when the gun goes off. I dont realy mind that much but my shooting buddies it drives them nuts.

As far as cleaner shooting I think not any of these powders are clean just less dirty.

 

[paulvallandigham]

As I understand it, American Pioneer was invented to be a substitute powder for Black Powder Cartridge guns for SASS shooting. Velocities have to be kept low to prevent injuries from ricochettes off the steel bang plates. AP is bulky, so it fills the cases of the large caliber pistol and revolver cartridges better than do most smokeless powder. The company is trying to push it as another powder to use in percussion ML rifles and shotguns, but everything I have heard indicates its an expensive alternative, that gives slower velocities compared to similar volume measured black powder charges. If you are CAS shooter, use the stuff. The primers in the pistol casings are hot enough to set it off and you will get the desired results. If you are shooting traditional BP guns, either percussion or flint, then stick with Black Powder. If they don't want to carry Black Powder, then by it from Powder, Inc. of Graf & sons, and have it shipped to your house. Save money by going together with some shooting buddies to order a larger quantity of powder, so you can divide the HazMat fee of $20.00 per shipment among all who order. The HazMat fee is the same if you order 1 pound, or 50 pounds of powder. You do the math. Why pay twice as much for a substitute powder that is not as good, deteriorates with age, and has a narrower range of application than black powder????

 

[Parzifal]

Honestly..
A.P.P Is easily the most useless thing I have ever used in all my life, I still have 2 lbs, maybe it will make crappy fireworks for Canada day or something..

I use it to test the ignition of my flint locks...The way I figure , If the pan lites with this stuff in it...The lock is amazing.

After you burn a bunch it seems to turn into a melted plastic type of consistency??

:barf:

 

[shmrck1]

underhammer,
Just wondering what you might
have paid for your APP to keep Jim Shockley
hunting the world with his I/L's?
777 and Pyrodex are BP wanna bees.You might want
to try Goex,Swiss,Elephant or some other kind of
BP before trying a sub.Your supply shop sold you
on what he had, most likely,not what was best.IMO
PV,
Has given you some excellent advice! LISTEN
snake-eyes
:hmm:

 

[redwing]

Elephant Powder is no more. They did the right thing and sent it off to the Elephant Grave Yard a few years back. That was terrible stuff, it was giving all black powder a bad name. :cursing:

 

[Landngroove]

American Pioneer Powder is not in the same class as real black powder. :hmm: Before I knew how real black powder performed, I had used APP. APP definetly has less velocity, less felt recoil, less muzzleblast, on a measured load for load firing, VS. black powder. It also is affected by humidity, as it's accuracy declines if it is not used shortly after it is loaded in your ML. It did have good accuracy if used immediatly out of the container. It will clump up in the container, over time, if you do not use it up after breaking the factory seal. I had some about a year old, and this happened. :cursing: I would not reccomend this powder for hunting! If you have access to real black powder, get some. You won't look back! :grin:

 

[bpbrs]

I've shot APP and the pre clean shot . It shot great for me. I cut my powder charge down and still was hitting the target at 100 yards.
I think if I was shoting a thicker patch the group may have been tighter. :hmm:

I shoot mostly Goex now as it is less expensive.

 

[haroldpotter]

Well today I experimented with APP. 60gr 3f in my 45 cal. Had 2 slight hang fires after a few shots. It was windy so I couldn’t tell for sure but it seemed like there was less smoke. Didn’t like the smell, nothing like BP or Pyrodex. After 8 shots I ran a patch with No.13 then a clean patch, have seen dirtier patches from “clean” barrels. Didn’t expect accuracy, next week I’m scheduled for cataract surgery Squirrel season opens in Michigan tomorrow and I plan to spend some time in the woods loaded with FFFg Geox. The reason for using other powder is to save my BP, don’t know where to buy it anymore

 

[Rat Trapper]

I know guys who like the American Pioneer powder, but so far it has not impresed me. I do like the neat little powder tubes a guy gave me at the range from the premeasured American Pioneer he was shooting. For me I will stick with Triple seven 2f. I have 2 TC Hawkens and a modern rifle and all get fed out of the same bottle of Triple Seven 2F. I do most of my shooting with the two Hawkens, and I do not have problems with misfires, hangfires, and the accuracy is great in my rifles. Your rifles may prefer something else.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Had a chance to play with some American Pioneer 2F in my TC 54 cal Hawken today. With 100 grains and a Horandy .530 round ball plus a TC prelubed patch this combination turned in a 7/8 inch 3 shot group at 50 yds. Previously I had tried this powder in my TC 50 cal Hawken, with poor groups. Maybe the patch was too loose in the 50, as loading the 54 was much harder than the 50. This combination did print the group 2 inches lower than 90 grains of Triple Seven 2F with the same bullet/patch.