Anealing brass butt plate??

[Brad Foust]

Going to try inletting / fitting my butt plate.
I have been advised to "aneal"(?) the brass to soften it first. So that I can beat / bend the fit as part of the process??
What say you guys??? Makes sense to me but I sure dont really know.
And if it is advisable, just how do I do it.?
How hot must I get the butt plate? And then I am told it is the slow colling that makes it maleable?
Do I make it red hot? Just sort of hot? What?
How can I tell brass is cherry red when it is already red??
Please bear with this novice, I am trying.
Actually, if I could find someone to do these several harder parts of the rifle, I think I might be able to do most myself. But there is no one in my area that can or will do piece work like this. So it looks like it is up to me!!
Thanks all

 

[kaintuck]

i dont beat my buttplate, i take and smooth the wood side, then rasp the wood to fit it....
BP are the time consumers of fitting!

but, to anneal my brass it would be dull red and cool on its own......

 

[crockett]

NO, on the white metals it is the other way. In other words with steel you heat cherry red and quench to harden and to soften/anneal you slowly cool it. On the brass it's the other way, you heat cherry red and quench to soften. An example would be reloaders that want to soften the necks on their cases, the cases are set in a pan of water up to the necks. The necks are heated cherry red and tipped over to quench and soften.
On the buttplate, softening would probably help but the BIG THING is not to put a dent in the butt plate by trying to conform it the the stock. Be careful. It is an image thing- tapping the edge to get rid of any gap. I always first smoke/inlet black and scrape about as good as I can and then do the tap. I'd use a block of wood, etc to eliminate any mallet mark. Even a plastic mallet can mark a buttplate.

 

[Vaino]

I've reformed or reshaped yellow brass BPs w/o annealing but in the inletting process, have never pounded or peened the PB to fit....have the wood do the fitting.

BPs are a pretty thick, large item to anneal....might have to do it in smaller areas and then move to the next using a Mapp Gas or another hotter torch, unless a large oven is available. Cherry red is the color along w/ an air cool or a dunk in water....Fred

 

[galamb]

I use John Bivens "hack and smash" technique to fit the butt plate.

I do get it very close with the band saw and then a wood rasp and chisel - no super big gaps, I'm looking for maybe 1/32" or so - so hold the plate over the oil lamp, get her black - trial fit - remove a little more wood until it's mostly inlet.

When it's 95% + showing black transfer I grab the hammer.

I do not anneal the brass, just go at her with a ball peen hammer - not "how wild" but if you hit it as (flat) as possible you don't leave significant marks - easily filed or buffed out without removing much material.

Works well and saves the last couple of hours horsing around trying to get that last bit of metal to contact the wood.

 

[Len Graves]

Whether you anneal or not, be careful to support the toe of the stock. When bending the plate. it is against the grain at that point and can break off the toe. Try to get as close as you can to a good fit before resorting to pounding to shape. Wood with heavy leather between the work and hammer will help minimize dents.

 

[rich pierce]

If your buttplate is sand cast brass, anneal it. If it is wax cast it may be a bronze alloy sold as brass that does not anneal well and can even fail when heated to a dull red.

If you do attempt the "get it close then use the mallet" technique, or even if you don't, slim the edges of the buttplate by filing. This will look better and conform better. I would not use a steel hammer unless you want to do a lot of re-shaping of your buttplate. I have a copper hammer I use. Plenty of weight but will not dig up the brass.

 

[kaintuck]

OPPPsss...crocket is right~ i have CRS going on!

 

[jerrywh]

Glue a piece of leather on the face of the ball peen hammer and it will save you a alot of filing later. Don't get carried away with the hammer or you might chip the stock. Don't ask me how I know. I usually use a hardwood hammer. You don't need to get the brass cherry red just red hot in a dark room 1350° F will do .

 

[necchi]

OPPPsss...crocket is right~ i have CRS going on!

Nope, your both right.
It doesn't matter if brass is quenched or not. The annealing happens when it's heated, and the "softness" is related to the temp, The hotter you get it the softer it'll be, and as mentioned too hot can cause damage to the matrix.
Brass is copper and zinc, get it too hot and the zinc burns off.
Folks annealing brass cartridge use a pan of water so the heat doesn't get too far down the body of the case, that doesn't mean they don't get it too hot anyway. The case in a pan of water method isn't fool proof at all, it's just one of many techniques.

IMHO, unless someone needs to make a major move of the plate, like an 1/8" or more there's no need to anneal a butt plate. And making a move like that needs to be done in several small movements with several annealing's to get it done.
Cut the wood.

 

[Elnathan]

As Necchi said, it makes no difference whether the brass is quenched or left to cool slowly, it is annealed all the same. I spent a considerable amount of time swaging out a couple buttplates from sheet brass several years ago, so I can speak with some experience in the matter.

I doubt that a cast buttplate needs annealing, but if you decide to try it, I suggest that you acquire either more than one propane torch or something hotter, and that you build some sort of heat reflector for the buttplate to rest in while you heat it. I used a couple ceramic firebricks - the soft kind used in kilns - but I suspect clay or adobe might also work. Buttplates take a lot of heating.

Brass doesn't get cherry-red the way steel and iron do, but it does take on a sort of dull red glow. If you are worried about being able tell when it is the right heat, experiment with a piece of scrap brass first - you will figure out what you are looking for pretty quickly.