Another .32 Crockett Thread

[user 43911]

Only have the Pedersoli, but do not recall what is slugs. I’ll try and measure it in the next day or so. As far as shooting it, I use a relatively thin wet patch and ball (#1-1/2 buck) over a dry hard felt wad that is 1/8” thick by .38” diameter. Accurate and can shoot pretty much all day with it.

Have no recollection what the TC measured, but believe the Crocket had about .005” deep grooves. Shot round balls great at 25 yards, usually with all shots touching. Maxiballs, maybe 1”-2” plus on a good day, with some looking like they wanted to keyhole. Gave up on them pretty quick.

Thanks, look forward to the info.
My Crockett is 11 thousandths groove depth ( .320 land with 342 groove).

Keyhole is what I would expect for unstable projectile and distance makes it more of a problem.

 

[user 43911]

Id like to see how this works out, I have a 32 Cherokee I would like to shoot different bullets out of

Any chance you could measure the bore on your Cherokee ? (and post sizes), Thanks.

 

[user 43911]

I may buy a .32 maxi mold and machine it down to the second driving band. I understand the bands are three different sizes with the base band being the smallest, if the increments are right it will work perfect, the length will be on the money as will the weight. This mold is not the primary focus but is making for another project.

 

[SDSmlf]

Thanks, look forward to the info.
My Crockett is 11 thousandths groove depth ( .320 land with 342 groove).

Keyhole is what I would expect for unstable projectile and distance makes it more of a problem.

With .011” deep grooves wound not expect your Crocket to handle conicals very well, but who really knows until you try.

Found photo of my Pedersoli bore dimensions in archived photographs. Looks like it’s .321” bore diameter and .331” groove diameter.

 

[user 43911]

With .011” deep grooves wound not expect your Crocket to handle conicals very well, but who really knows until you try.

Found photo of my Pedersoli bore dimensions in archived photographs. Looks like it’s .321” bore diameter and .331” groove diameter.
View attachment 35060

Thank You, great stuff. Pedersoli looks to use the same depth of rifling on many of their guns (it's the same as a .45 Kentucky rifle I had), as far a 11 thou and conical bullets go I was able to get good results with a .54 Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawkens, hope I can figure a better result with the .32.

The Crockett is my main focus but if I can come up with something that works very well for most .32's
that will be a bonus, information you gave above will help in that.

 

[bigted]

Wonder if increasing the powder charge would help your conicals. Maybe they just need a bit harder kick in the pants to begin performing.

 

[hanshi]

In truth I did not experiment all that much with .32 HBWC in my Crockett. These bullets were swaged (Hornady, I sorta think) and meant for a .32 S&W long. The Crockett does have deep grooves and being a prb shooter, I used either 20 grns or 30 grns and a .311 cast ball and pillow ticking patches..

 

[Bledfor Days]

I took out my .32 Cherokee today and shot about 15 round balls and 10 maxi balls. I was shooting offhand at 25 yds. and the roundballs seemed to be better placed. I was going to put it on the bench and get some better results, but the range was closing early and I didn't have time.
I was using 10gr of 3F, .311 balls and a .018 patch. Im still figuring out what this one likes, so no useful data here.

 

[Cattman]

DBRIVET, i think you may have a very good idea their. i would use a wad behind the bullet. also i would up the powder charge also. let us know how it turns out.

 

[user 43911]

A conical/bullet I'm working on is 83 grains and looks to need 1,635 fps to get the correct (optimum) revolutions per second (RPS), testing at the end of next week will lock in the velocity . One number crunch came in 100 fps slower. I will test 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards and may play on some targets at 175.
Time to target is about .20 of a second at 100 yards

Drag Function: G1 Ballistic Coefficient: 0.125 Bullet Weight: 85 gr Initial Velocity: 1635 fps Sight Height : 0 in Shooting Angle: 0°

Wind Speed: 0 mph Wind Angle: 0° Zero Range: 100 yd Chart Range: 200 yd Maximum Range: 1959 yd Step Size: 25 yd

International Standard Atmosphere Altitude: Sea Level (0 ft) Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg Temperature: 59° F Relative Humidity: 50% Speed of Sound: 1116 fps

Range	Elevation	Elevation	Elevation	Windage	Windage	Windage	Time	Energy	Vel[x+y]
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(MIL)	(in)	(MOA)	(MIL)	(s)	(ft.lbf)	(ft/s)
0	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	505	1635
25	1.63	-6.17	-1.80	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.05	429	1507
50	2.28	-4.34	-1.26	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.10	365	1390
75	1.81	-2.30	-0.67	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.16	312	1285
100	0.02	-0.02	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.22	269	1194
125	-3.30	2.52	0.73	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.28	237	1120
- Sound Barrier (1116 fps) -
150	-8.34	5.31	1.54	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.35	212	1060
175	-15.32	8.35	2.43	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.42	193	1012
200	-24.42	11.65	3.39	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.50	178	972

 

[user 43911]

The above is based on a 1 in 48 twist as most barrels are this twist, the T/C guns and a couple of others can run about 200 fps slower and be solid.

Note: the figures for the chart were set at zero for sight height, drop is the same for all guns (32 or 54) gravity is constant, I was looking at a base .

 

[user 43911]

I'm sure many have seen the link posted below but if you have not it's a good read.
Posting because paper patch has come up, some of my tests will be another type of conical with paper patch, I have some 25% and 100% rag paper, when I get to doing tests I'll post about results etc.

http://namlhunt.com/ml-paperpatch.html

 

[user 43911]

Here is one from 2013. Patched round ball but may be of interest to some.


http://www.namlhunt.com/mlsmallgame.html

 

[SDSmlf]

Have had good success with paper patching 45 caliber bullets with 100% cotton 9 pound onion skin paper. Basically loaded with sized bullet that gives a snug slip fit bullet on top of a hard felt wad over 80 - 90 grains of 3F Swiss in a 1-28 twist barrel.

 

[RAEDWALD]

As the matter of conical bullets is raised regarding the Crockett I have given thought to the issue that the Crockett bore is optimised for the patched round ball. The twist is not inappropriate given the small bore as smaller balls need a faster rotation to offset their lesser rotational inertia. The rifling however is far too deep to suit the conical bullet. There are assorted workarounds but the bullet would be better suited to a shallow rifling depth so that it can obturate more easily upon firing to avoid gas blow by. With a shallow rifling one could use harder lead whereas the deep rifling probably needs soft lead to obturate down into that deep groove. With the comparatively (compared to a round ball) long engaged length of the bullet in the rifling in a conical then hard lead will grip a shallow depth rifling quite adequately and be less likely to strip than soft so larger charges could be used, were that desired.

It occurs to me that the simplest (in principle) modification would be to reduce the depth by removing some of the top of the lands. The groove being untouched. Way beyond my expertise. Is there any way of doing this other than throwing large amounts of money at the professionals?

 

[user 43911]

As the matter of conical bullets is raised regarding the Crockett I have given thought to the issue that the Crockett bore is optimised for the patched round ball. The twist is not inappropriate given the small bore as smaller balls need a faster rotation to offset their lesser rotational inertia. The rifling however is far too deep to suit the conical bullet. There are assorted workarounds but the bullet would be better suited to a shallow rifling depth so that it can obturate more easily upon firing to avoid gas blow by. With a shallow rifling one could use harder lead whereas the deep rifling probably needs soft lead to obturate down into that deep groove. With the comparatively (compared to a round ball) long engaged length of the bullet in the rifling in a conical then hard lead will grip a shallow depth rifling quite adequately and be less likely to strip than soft so larger charges could be used, were that desired.

It occurs to me that the simplest (in principle) modification would be to reduce the depth by removing some of the top of the lands. The groove being untouched. Way beyond my expertise. Is there any way of doing this other than throwing large amounts of money at the professionals?

I have to break my reply down . 1) contradicts it's self, Crockett is known for being accurate with round ball and twist it has.
2. What, Yes, In some cases harder lead alloy is used with shallow rifling so as not to strip.
Soft lead (pure lead) has a brinell hardness of 5 and obturates far easier than any alloy at lower pressure, one of the conical bullets I'm working with works like a R.E.A.L. type, engagement surface is short, large loads are not needed, the ability to obturate with ease helps it work and as you note the rifling on a Crockett is deep and as such is less prone to strip out, strip out/sliding is normally a problem in the first few inches of barrel, when the conical if formed to the rifling (obturated fully) it is less of a problem and where load work up comes in .

Years ago I had problems with a revolver that would lead the bore, I used a hard lead alloy and at first could not understand why this was happening, short answer I was shooting a low powered load in competition that did not obturate the bullet allowing gas to pass around the bullet and sloughed lead on the way, I made some with pure lead loaded the same powder with the same lube , no more leading.
In the link above on patch bullets, the Whitworth is being shot with pure lead (I think), you want to talk about obturation, form round to hex.

Lastly, to bore out the rifle is not something I would consider (to .33) , the challenge is to make what I have work, otherwise I would just make a custom rifle, if I can come up with something that works across a range of .32's that would be great, if no, we always have round ball.

 

[user 31257]

I’ve got a T/C Maxiball mold in .32 but I’ve never used it. I thought I’d fool with shooting them in my .32’s but the more I shoot patched balls from them the less inclined I am to mess with bullets.

 

[user 43911]

I’ve got a T/C Maxiball mold in .32 but I’ve never used it. I thought I’d fool with shooting them in my .32’s but the more I shoot patched balls from them the less inclined I am to mess with bullets.

Send it to me, I'll cast a bunch and send it back (with your shipping cost)

 

[user 31257]

Send it to me, I'l cast a bunch and send it back

PM me your mailing address. Now I’m going to have to find it.

 

[user 43911]

Did anyone notice the foot pounds energy of the little 85 grain conical at 50 yards, that's an ethical groundhog, feral pig/hog non-head shot round .