Another new shooter with questions please

[Thomas Lewis]

Hello all, I am also a new shooter (well my son is), and have a few questions please. We just got a Pedersoli Kentucky Percussion Rifle from a store that did not have the greatest customer service. They sort of threw things at us and we bought.... My bad. I thought that this would be as easy as my in-line. My bad #2. My son loves the old style type muzzleloader, so I thought it would be a great gift. o.k. questions.

1. We have Hornady® Great Plains Bullets 385 grain for the .50 Cal gun. Yet, the manufacture table has no loading chart for that cal.

2. He sold us FFFG for the powder, yet all I read in the man specs is use FFG.

How bad did I screw up here?? I know I have to get a cleaning jig (gun did not come with one). What else do I need to get operational? I have a powder flask and measuring tool, #11 caps, and some other stuff. Again, I was thinking that this guy know what he was talking about. I am an experienced shooter with a variety of different weapons and cal's, to include muzzleloaders (the other style). Thank you for your help.

 

[galamb]

You are not off to a terrible start.

I shoot FFF in all my guns including my 50 cal (also used in my 54 before I got rid of that one). It does burn a little "faster" than FF in the larger bores so IF you already had load data you could reduce it a bit (10%).

Since you have no data I can give you some loads from the Lyman manual with 385 gr Buffalo conicals which should be "close enough for black powder".

With FFF Goex:

60 grains = 1260 fps/muzzle 1358 lbs energy still packing 977 ft lbs @ 100 yards

70 grains = 1338 fps/muzzle 1531 lbs energy - 1064 ft lbs @ 100

80 grains = 1417 fps/1717 ftlbs - 1164 ft lbs @ 100

90 grains = 1486 fps/1888 ftlbs - 1261 ft lbs @ 100

100 grains = 1556 fps/2070 ftlbs - 1369 ft lbs @ 100

110 and 120 grains (which is above what Pedersoli suggests I believe) would give you 1606 and 1657 fps respectively, 2206/2348 ft lbs at the muzzle and would still pack 1452/1542 ft lbs @ 100.

Myself, I would start with 70 grains and work up in 5 grain increments until it's grouping "good enough" if he is going to "hunt it" and stop when it either starts to open up or his shoulder is telling him it's time to stop

The only other thing you may want to add to your list of "stuff" is a nipple pick - helps to clear out the "cooties" if you get a powder bridge/crud in the nipple.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You did the right thing by coming to the forum and asking questions. So far the only thing you have that is wrong is the purchase of the Hornady bullets. Your rifle is designed for optimal performance with round ball. So get some 0.490 round balls and go the fabric store and get some mattress ticking. You will probably need a short starter to seat the ball. For lubrication, spit will do to start with, but I prefer something with a bit of oil such as olive oil, Crisco (Unsalted) or any liquid cooking oil. Later you can make up any of the other concoctions that are used for lubrication. I also recommend a working ramrod for range loading with a proper fit jag for cleaning.

All black powders and substitutes require rigorous cleaning to remove fouling. Even the so called non-fouling substitutes leave a very corrosive fouling in the bore. By far the best cleaning solution is warm to hot tap water with a squirt of dish washing soap. The final step in cleaning is wipe with a good rust inhibiting oil such as Birchwood Casey's Barricade.

You were sold the fffg granulation powder. Most of us prefer to use real black powder such as GOEX. Sometimes all that is available are the substitutes such as Pyrodex or 777. Many of us shoot fffg in our 50 caliber guns. It is a little more powerful than ffg so lighten up your loads. Start shooting with about 50 grains volume of the fffg and work up in 5 grains increments to about 90 grains.

After reading on this forum go the Davide Pedersoli web site and look up the black powder manual. There you will find specific information on the care and operation of your son's new rifle.

Davide Pedersoli Instruction Manuals

 

[necchi]

Clean that rifle with an oil solvent before you shoot it,
BP fouling and the storage grease from the factory will mix too lend a really hard tar like fouling that'll mess things up from the start.
Use something like brake cleaner and clean until a white patch come out white, and do get the "flash channel,, the port between the nipple and main barrel.
Your Nitro powder solvents will not work, for cleaning this gun.

 

[nwtradegun]

what make and model is it.

 

[necchi]

what make and model is it.

From his first post;

We just got a Pedersoli Kentucky Percussion Rifle

 

[jethro224]

I thought that this would be as easy as my in-line.

It can be. It will be as easy as you let it be.
First, and sometimes hardest, thing to do is to throw out everything you "know" from reading hunting magazines and watching TV hunting shows.
You've found the right place to learn everything there is to know about traditional muzzleloading.

Welcome to the forum. :hatsoff:
Stick around and you'll be buying another traditional gun for yourself before you know it. :thumbsup:

 

[tenngun]

As stated above your gun will work best with round ball. Looking at velocity and energy charts you will think it too enemic to hunt with. However out to 100-125 yards the fat ball in low velocity seemingly low energy are devastaing to deer, and will make ragged holes clean through them. You will find the ball a joy to shoot. The recoil is minumal even up to big charges.
Clean your gun as soon as you get home. Use just plain warm water to clean with, or maybe a drop or two of mild soap, dry and oil. Dont put it off.Black powder burns to a soot that loves to rust anything it touchs, its more modren kin are even worse.

 

[daniel collums]

your rifle has a 1-48 twist so it might group somewhat with the g.p. bullets you bought, just make sure you lube them good before loading. patched round balls will be better as stated but try what you got also. with them big g.p. bullets dont put much of that fffg in the load, i wouldn't go over 50grs with them. with patched round balls you can push them more but don't try more than 80grs of the fffg. let us know how it goes. i would really like to know because i want one of them pedersoli kentuckys also.

 

[pjmcdonald]

I picked up a used Pedersoli Kentucky in .45 at gun show in Jackson back in July. Guy didn't know what he had - it was tagged as a .50.

In any case, an absolute joy to shoot. The more experienced guys have already put you on the right road. I've been experimenting with .440 and .445 round ball, .008 and .015 patches, both pre-lubed and lubed with coconut oil. Worked up from 50 to 70 grains of FFF Goex powder. Sweet spot seems to be 60 grains, though it isn't particularly finicky.

Few things I've found handy: range rod, cleaning jag, patch worm, and ball puller (yes, I've had to use it - more than once ). Went ahead while I was ordering from Track of the Wolf and got extra nipples and nipple wrench. Inherited nipple pick, cap holder, and powder horn. Have a few more doodads, bits, and pieces. Range time will help you figure out essentials and nice to haves.

I've had as much fun at the public range introducing young people to traditional muzzle loaders as I've had shooting it myself. Far more enjoyable rifle to me than most my modern firearms. Wealth of knowledge and help here! Enjoy!

 

[Don Steele]

Just gonna toss this into the conversation...along with a WELCOME..!! :hatsoff:

Your 50 caliber Pedersoli has a 1:48 twist in the barrel. I have no experience with Pedersoli rifles, but I do have a Thompson Center 50 caliber with a 1:48 twist. I'm going to share some observations based on that one.
I have found that the Hornady 385 gn. Great Plains bullet is an excellent choice for hunting Deer and Hogs. Using a good rest and 80-90 gns. of Goex (I've worked with both 2f and 3f)I get "ragged one-hole" groups at 50 yds. That is a great bullet for hunting. Hits hard...retains essentially ALL of it's weight and provides awesome mushrooming and penetration.
All that good stuff said...I don't enjoy shooting them much more than is necessary.
What I've done, and recommend you try also is to find a patched roundball load that prints to about the same point of impact. In my rifle, a .490 RB, and something like 60 gns. of Goex with a .015 patch works real well. That combination with whatever patch lube you like will load easy and not beat you up in a long range session.

One other point...for a total newbie...be prepared to wipe your bore after every shot with a thin "wiping patch", slightly moistened with any one of a multitude of concoctions you can read all about here..or just good old spit for that matter. You may eventually find a golden combination of ball size, patch,and lube which will allow you to shoot all day without wiping...AND still get great accuracy and precision. For the moment however...wipe it between shots.
When I was a total newbie...there was no internet to get all this good information. I didn't know anyone who was an experienced BP shooter. As a result, I took my brand new rifle out to the farm, along with a box full of do-dads read through the little booklet of instructions...and commenced to shooting. That little booklet either failed to mention "FOULING"...or, in my haste...I missed that part. In any event..I kept loading and shooting, without wiping the bore. As it got harder to load...I just pushed harder and of course...I pushed from the end of the ramrod...like I saw on TV and in the movies.
Didn't get too many shots off before I was packing up and going home with a broken ramrod.

 

[Spikebuck]

First, welcome to the forum.

While I have not had a .50 Pedersoli, I've had a couple of .54's. Both had far slower rifling than yours and handled the Hornady GP bullets with great accuracy out past 100 yards cutting perfect holes (no tumbling)in the targets. So if you WANT to shoot conicals, I'll bet your gun will do just fine with them.

That said, I've shot a number of deer with both the conicals and patched round balls and you won't kill them any faster with the big conical. From my shooting, I also know that the patched round ball is more forgiving on the shoulder, load of powder being the same. So do try some patched round balls per all the suggestions provided by the others.

ALSO, if you want to see what patched round balls can do, have some fun watching traditional muzzleloading videos, and perhaps learn some things, consider the purchase of one or more of Brian Beckum's great traditional muzzleloader hunting videos. "Real Black Powder" is my favorite one, but "Flintlocks and Whitetails I&II" are also good. He shoots .50's a lot in his videos, so you'll see these baby's in action in real hunting situations!
http://www.beckumoutdoors.com/

I agree with others that soon you'll be following your son and getting a traditional muzzleloader. I started with the "other" kind too and in two years went traditional never looking back.

 

[Thomas Lewis]

WOW!!! Thank you ALL so very much for all of the posts and suggestions. My son and I will take all of this great advice to heart and continue to learn. I did go out and buy a new ramrod and some of the other items that were suggested. I am having a hard time finding some things, but I know that I will find them on the net. We are going to the range this weekend and next week, and, depending how that goes, hunting next weekend. I was not going to have him shoot the gun without ask folks first just because this does not "look" like any weapon I have ever used. I might even try it once.... The store did not have a puller in stock, but I have an extra jag for my gun, I am assuming that will work in the short term to clean his. Again, thank you all for the advice and hints to help us get on our feet with this "new" style of shooting.

 

[Chevythunderman]

A great website to get things from is WWW.trackof thewolf.com ! That's where a lot of us get our supplies from. Now they sell a lot of things so don't get overwhelmed by all the things you see. If you have any questions this is the place to be. You won't find a better group of people/friends than on here. Lots of knowledge and expertise to be had here. Best of luck to your son and his adventures with his new rifle! Nothing better than seeing a kid taking up the sport. If it weren't for them our sport would be dead!!!

And just another note on the rifle you purchased in my opinion the pedersoli rifles are as close to a custom rifle you can get as far as shooting and craftsmanship go....

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

You are on your way man! Enjoy the ride.

After you've gained some experience and familiarity with this old-timey gun do me a favor and report back here whether you really find it to be "less convenient" than the modern counterparts. (if the moderaters will allow such discussion - otherwise PM me)

The crew I've been hunting with are finding just the opposite to be true.

 

[SgtErv]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm relatively new myself, and probably the best advice I can give is to take your time at the range when loading and reloading. Missing a step will have you pulling a bullet out of there, and that can be pretty darn awful. "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." I invested in a CO2 ball discharger when I injured my back because it's a task getting it out of there.

In case you haven't read it yet, do ensure that the ball is firmly seated on the powder charge. I make a mark on the ramrod when it's loaded so that gives me a reference.

Be safe, and have fun. My final bit of advice is to read up on this forum. I am an amateur but I've just about completed a Kentucky Rifle refurbishing project, and these guys have helped out tremendously every step of the way. Great, knowledgeable folks here. And no question is dumb!