Another unusual gun 3

[Feltwad]

This gun like number 2 is a tube lock gun built by John Cox of Southampton in 1850 at the end of the percussion period which also shows that these guns were built for people who prefer the tube to the percussion cap . It is a rare piece built for the sport of live pigeon shooting from traps by its design it is a one off and specially built for some wealthy person . It is a 6 bore with a 32inch Damascus barrel and a unusual for end {see image} of top quality for a provincial maker equal to any top London maker another difference is the anvil which is part of the lock plate and the tube is held on the anvil by a scissor type of spring , the walnut stock and iron work is of a fine flat checkering more so the trigger guard and the for end cap
Feltwad

 

[windini]

Wow. Very nice specimen!

 

[Historian]

Absolutely incredible!

 

[Feltwad]

Not much interest in this thread of a rare tube lock pigeon gun maybe a mistake in entering to soon after Unusual 2 .
Feltwad

 

[cynthialee]

I am still rather astonished with the ignition system

I thought I was pretty savvy with the various odd ball ignition systems, but I had never heard of this one until you posted that other gun

making new ignition tubes would be a pita, no one is making them, but I see the benefit of such a gizmo

 

[hawkeye2]

K&S brass tubing of the correct diameter. Cut to length and flatten one end. Fill with the priming compound for the DIY cap maker kits. Should work shouldn't it?

 

[cynthialee]

well that is really the only option, but getting that tube the right diameter to fit snug every time

maybe no different than making your own caps and it just seems more daunting to me

either way that is a really interesting ignition system, would love to fire such a gun

 

[Colonial Boy]

Colour me green

 

[Rudyard]

Not much interest in this thread of a rare tube lock pigeon gun maybe a mistake in entering to soon after Unusual 2 .
Feltwad

Dear Felt Wad I sent you some pics of flint to cap option & Tube locks ide got up for trials, I used the purple stuff from 126 ( 303) primers in thin brass tube made for model engines just didn't have need beyound curiosity .The flint altererd to cap was Hawkers idea you might call it a 'devolveing' lock . Seem to me you had good response considering .

Regards Happy New year (Its Xmas day here )Rudyard

 

[Brokennock]

I love it. Still would prefer my flintlock, but, if I were to switch, I'd still rather this than a standard caplock.

 

[Feltwad]

Enclosed is a image of Rudyards different types of lock ignition that can be fitted to one of his flintlock rifle that may interest members to show whatever the situation arises he still has a usable gun
Feltwad

 

[3Setters]

Being new to muzzleloaders, can someone explain in simple terms to a simple person these different ignition systems other than the flintlock and standard caplock.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Absolutely exquisit Feltwad.

 

[TFoley]

Being new to muzzleloaders, can someone explain in simple terms to a simple person these different ignition systems other than the flintlock and standard caplock.

On Youtube, capandball has a great explanatory movie about making and shooting a tubelock ignition firearm. It has also been posted this forum, under other methods of ignition other than percussion and flintlock.

 

[Brokennock]

Okay 1st on my list, as I don't recognize them all either,

What is this and how does it work? Where/how does the spark or fire go into the main charge?

 

[Feltwad]

Okay 1st on my list, as I don't recognize them all either,
View attachment 111230
What is this and how does it work? Where/how does the spark or fire go into the main charge?

Brokennock
These are Rudyards alternative ignitions which most likely he will carry when of on walk about , take the bottom two they will most likely fit the rifle above so he is sure of a working rifle if he runs out on a given ignition , no doubt he will come along and give a full account of each
Feltwad

 

[11Bravo]

Very nice Feltwad, my guess is the strange for-end can create a firm hold for the left hand. Being a 6 bore you want the firm hold and maybe have your whole left arm help eat up some of the recoil?

 

[Robby]

Wow!!!! What a beautiful gun!!!! I have never seen a rest like that on the foreshock, except for MSR's. I have never handled one but from the picture only, it seems very practical and makes me wonder why it never caught on. Have you ever shot it Feltwad?
Robby

 

[Feltwad]

Wow!!!! What a beautiful gun!!!! I have never seen a rest like that on the foreshock, except for MSR's. I have never handled one but from the picture only, it seems very practical and makes me wonder why it never caught on. Have you ever shot it Feltwad?
Robby

Yes I have shot both tube locks in the past the tubes I made myself and primed them with the compound from the top hat musket caps which had do be done under glass .The tubes were made from copper tube from a model shop but had to be annealed the biggest fault that I found that some tubes on firing burst but worse they stuck in the touch hole and had to be drilled out .This I found was loading the tube with too much of the compound .
Feltwad

 

[Rudyard]

OK With Felt Wad kindly sending in the photoes I sent him I will explain them all .The rifle is just a target rifle too heavy to carry anywhere nor would I consider carrying alternate locks . The ringed around locks are simply an original tube lock hammer laying on a India lock since I toyed with the idea of makeing one up the reversed hammer is a Dyson casting he took off my original years ago .The smaller lock is his or Ted Blackley's casting again never made up but the inards of a rebounder would likley fit in nice .
Now below the rifles normal enough L&R late English locked.is a L&R fitted with a hammer like piece of steel held in the jaws of the cock while covering the pan is a modified pan cover sporting a nipple which plan was one tried with limited success by Lt Col Peter Hawker about 1820 at a guess (You might define that by his Diaries ,matters not) his failed due to the force damaging the pan cover , mine failed as it tended to blow out of the position by the violence of the discharge and little explosions near your eyeballs isn't helpfull in a target rifle .
My reason was nothing to do with spare locks in the bush rather than to shoot a percussion match at one shoot at Bisley MLAGB Short Range Champs as well as a flint rifle match with one less gun to lug the 200 miles from home as was at that time .
The final lock with the fancy hammer again fits same rifle and would fire as a tubelock the tube holder not fitted .But that was as far as I went with it .
The rifle its self was the up dated' Pebble gun ' a common plugged single round pin through the loop & 1" oct the original' Pebble Gun' so called derisivly if humourously by a shooter on Hawksworth range who now owns Henry Krank a big gun shop in UK.
The original ' Pebble gun ' was got up from a reject trade gun blank with some fault and deemed 'firewood' I stocked to a 58 NZ made barrel & the lock was just parts of a kit made messed up & given as bits to Harrison Rhimer who set up with Montana barrels at F ship with instruction NOT to sell as a whole but ide gathered the parts from his bit box he explained, I talked to Bill Cox graciously said ok . So with a Baker guard & B' plate the ' Pebble gun 'was born but soon got a 54 GM barrel plus a' North Star' waster barrel (Turned too thin) & I had many hours of shooting ere a customer bought the rifle 58 . I kept the the 54 & Shotgun Brl and these and a 50 cal Douglass got stocked up to ' Pebble gun 2 ' plus a 20 bore rifle to try & a 451 barrel all the 1" oct ..So to close this saga I used the shotgun barrel engraved' Another' ( A common term meaning some gun rebarreled by not the original maker ) since the pondorous new target one was ill suited for a shotgun I stocked it up in another reject this time chiefs grade TG blank faulted but some glitch of bad knot so' Firewood ' its new stock again flint but suited a 58 barrel I had so it has the options .. Confused by now ? I am . Anyway that's the story of the tube lock option ' Pebble gun '..
Regards thank you for your patience .
Rudyard .