Antique Firearms

[TFoley]

Why not before 1899 ? -- - then at least Federally it is not a FIREARM.

This forum has many members who do NOT live in the USA, where an antique can be most anything over fifty years old.

Note also that your Federal ruling holds no water outside the USA. For many of us, ANY firearms that can be fired with a projectile, and uses black powder to do it, IS classed as a firearm, especially here in UK, where their shooting is a very popular sport at the very highest level of national and international competitiveness.

However, MOST here agree that the arm must be some form of muzzleloader, fired by flint or percussion cap.

Many here also support the cut-off date of 1865 - the end of your Civil war. Again, this holds resonance for American members here, but for the rest of us, not so much. It is, however, a good date, when most muzzleloading firearms had been perfected and were about to be replaced by some form of breechloading arm not covered in the ethos of this forum.

 

[Feltwad]

For a antique weapon has I have said 1865 in my view is a safe cut of year for antique weapons loaded from the muzzle for which there are 200 years of different ignitions prior 1865.
Feltwad

 

[TDM]

For a antique weapon has I have said 1865 in my view is a safe cut of year for antique weapons loaded from the muzzle for which there are 200 years of different ignitions prior 1865.
Feltwad

I think 1865 would work.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

1865 would cut out most muzzleloading schuetzen, long range and target rifles which were used until much later than 1865 along with those gunsmiths who continued to build and sell rifles.

 

[babstooge]

IMHO I think that the term "antique " would mean arms made in the 70s. Therefore I think using the term "original built" muzzleloaders prior to 1870s would cover what I think the forum would cover. Being fairly new I really enjoy reading about the history and looking at the pictures of the original guns. Bruce

 

[TDM]

For a antique weapon has I have said 1865 in my view is a safe cut of year for antique weapons loaded from the muzzle for which there are 200 years of different ignitions prior 1865.
Feltwad

1865 would cut out most muzzleloading schuetzen, long range and target rifles which were used until much later than 1865 along with those gunsmiths who continued to build and sell rifles.

IMHO I think that the term "antique " would mean arms made in the 70s. Therefore I think using the term "original built" muzzleloaders prior to 1870s would cover what I think the forum would cover. Being fairly new I really enjoy reading about the history and looking at the pictures of the original guns. Bruce

Well, again, a date has to be agreed on. I’d have no problem with 1865 or 1870.

 

[SamTex1949]

Im back to the idea 1899

 

[toot]

Here is a photo of muzzleloading shooters at the National Rifle Club match in Vernon VT held September 2nd 1896. Muzzleloading did not die out in 1865 at the end of the US War Between the States nor with Federal US legislation from modern times stating 1898 or 1899.

it seems that at / after 70+ you are at your best, but the sand in the hour glass sadly is running out! and with it goes all of the knowledge! so much to do, so little time!!

 

[GREENSWLDE]

For a antique weapon has I have said 1865 in my view is a safe cut of year for antique weapons loaded from the muzzle for which there are 200 years of different ignitions prior 1865.
Feltwad

Hello Feltwad.
I'm with the 1865 cut off. But I have a C&G CBL thats 1860 "Patent" qualifies it for use as a M/L if you run out of Cartridges (Paper Cased).
It has been accepted many times at MLAIC meetings in UK, Europe, USA and RSA. ???
Best Wishes and Kind Regards.
Stay Well,, OLD DOG..

 

[jimhallam]

1885

View attachment 171713

This is a capping breechloader -- - half cock; pull triggerguard forward -- barrel slides; then you can tip up the breech: Gastinne Renette, of course -- sold as " pour l'amateur" (someone who didnt want to load a TRUE Muzzle-loader.

 

[Bayer1957]

Dies ist ein kappender Hinterlader -- - halben Hahn; Abzugsbügel nach vorne ziehen -- Laufschieber; dann kann man den Verschluss hochkippen: Gastinne Renette, natürlich -- verkauft als "pour l'amateur" (jemand, der keinen ECHTEN Vorderlader laden wollte.

Now the question arises whether this gun is still in the topic

 

[Brazos John]

I support 1899.
Otherwise, there were still lots of MLs built between the CW and 1899 that would be eliminated.
I personally prefer flinters, but lots of folks like percussion, so this would keep them in the fold.
IMHO.

 

[springfield art]

Josh Golcher was in the lock business from 1810 to 1860 In Philadelphia, based on different posts I’ve seen. Shipped locks all over the east coast from what I’ve read. That’s a beauty!

Back in history, Philadelphia was lousy with Gunmakers. Henry Deringer had a contract around time of the War of 1812 to provide trade guns to the Gov't. for trade with the Indians.

 

[TDM]

Looks like the most votes are for an 1899 cutoff.

 

[TFoley]

Here in the UK we have the Vintage Arms Association - VAA. Its 'cut-off' date is 1933, and it 'likes' the firearms shot by members to be with a DOM on or before this date. The VAA had judged that most important developments in firearms' design were made before 1933, so ignores all semi-autos - just as well, as they are, in any case, all prohibited firearms here in UK, but until 1986, they were not.

However, they fully recognise that there are many people who shoot a replication of an older firearm usually a muzzleloader or an earlier than smokeless powder breechloader - Sharps, Trapdoor, Werndl, Mauser et al. The latter three, are, however, all cartridge-firing, and can not be shot in competition with a muzzleloader of any kind

So, howsabout ACCEPTING all ORIGINAL BLACKPOWDER MUZZLELOADING firearms designs, eschewing the odd-balls like capping breechloaders, Hall, Gallagher and Smith carbines and their ilk, as well as loose-loading Sharps - after all, they fire by placing a paper cartridge into a breech.

The included arms therefore CAN be Schuetzen-style rifles that some here seem to own, bit only the real deal - NO replicas.

 

[OldRust]

Lets set a date. 1899 sure.

You know someone will eventually post a cartridge gun or something else way outside of the category. We can have the moderators type them a Strongly Worded Message!! Or just be verbally rude to them ourselves <G>

I'm really anxious to see the postings and to add a few myself.

Thanks
O.R.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Must be 1865 as per the forum rules as they exist now. “Original guns” will open too many doors as I have an original TC Renegade with a 4 digit s/n. That makes is like 50 years old! Oh, and semi auto’s existed long before 1933 btw, in fact before 1900.
You near sighted folks don’t want this subforum you have the opportunity to create here turning into an unintended mess I assume?
Walk

 

[Walkingeagle]

Must be 1865 as per the forum rules as they exist now. “Original guns” will open too many doors as I have an original TC Renegade with a 4 digit s/n. That makes is like 50 years old! Oh, and semi auto’s existed long before 1933 btw, in fact before 1900.
You near sighted folks don’t want this subforum you have the opportunity to create here turning into an unintended mess I assume?
Walk

 

[OldRust]

Must be 1865 as per the forum rules as they exist now. “Original guns” will open too many doors as I have an original TC Renegade with a 4 digit s/n. That makes is like 50 years old! Oh, and semi auto’s existed long before 1933 btw, in fact before 1900.
You near sighted folks don’t want this subforum you have the opportunity to create here turning into an unintended mess I assume?
Walk

This I believe makes the most sense. The forum owners established 1865 as a cutoff date so who are we to extend it. As to nearsighted folks I don't believe I know anyone on this forum well enough to call them that. 1865 Yea ! Let's see those pictures !!!!!

Thanks
O. R.

 

[TDM]

@Walkingeagle is right, this has also been stated by @Notchy Bob and @Feltwad. This is a muzzleloader forum that already has an 1865 cut off date. I have no problems with respecting that.