antique german or austrian jaeger rifle

[bobwrighter]

Hi, can anyone give me any info at all about this rifle I have? on top of barrel MI.SP.A.NEUSTAT, breech has just two simple markings. This is a non-military piece I assume? what date is is? I thought about 1750? any info at all gratefully received as I only know what I have read on the net about these. One thing I would love to know... it has a small rectangular plate behind the triggerguard with a small threaded hole in it... what for? thanks
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j80tphkh80hqmav/diLgbfajsd

 

[F.G. Ford]

Very nice find!
Also in good condition, considering the vintage.
I also look forward to any information.
All the best!
Fred

 

[Ike Godsey]

One thing I would love to know... it has a small rectangular plate behind the triggerguard with a small threaded hole in it... what for?

hi!

i am not an expert on these, but i have a friend in austria, he collects such rifles.
i will post him the foto link and see what he says.
may take a couple of days, if you don't mind.

ike

 

[Dean2]

For a three hundred year old gun that is in great shape. Will be interested to hear what the experts have to say.

 

[bobwrighter]

that would be great thanks very much. I'd especially like to know who the maker might be MI.SP, the date. what that little steel plate with hole is for, and anything else about it..! ty!

I,m also looking for an old ramrod to go with this... if anyone knows where to get one. Not a repro, but something appropriate

 

[M. De Land]

My guess would be it is the original sling purchase and the button behind it was added later. MD

 

[bobwrighter]

i guess that's an idea but I don't think so, these always seem to have the back button so that would be the original. so I,m fairly sure that's the original. why add an extra sling mount?, with a big plate and a threaded hole to take a bolt seems unecessary, I think it has another purpose. It seems to be the same age as the rest of the gun, all the same patina etc

 

[Ike Godsey]

My guess would be it is the original sling purchase and the button behind it was added later. MD

well, we here in europe would go along with that.
my friend said that this is typical for the strap button. the one that is on the rifle right now is rather crude screwed in.
origially those rifles are very well made and those inlets are quite often seen with the strap button on top of it.

it would be a considerable change if you would take the advise to re-set the strap button to the plate.

hope we could be of any help.

ike (and werner, my austrian friend)

p.s. no info on the script till now. we'll keep lurcking..

 

[Ike Godsey]

i guess that's an idea but I don't think so, these always seem to have the back button so that would be the original. so I,m fairly sure that's the original. why add an extra sling mount?, with a big plate and a threaded hole to take a bolt seems unecessary, I think it has another purpose. It seems to be the same age as the rest of the gun, all the same patina etc

to be honest, if you look closely to the pics, the strap-button is VERY crude made in. there is still some amount of wood around the area where the button is installed.
the rest of the rifle is VERY well made. do you really think they made a well builded rifle like this and then screw a button into it so crude? no way.

we believe that the original button got lost and the other one was installed.

true, the patina looks the same all over the gun. but keep in mind, this button change could have been in the guns very early days. so the patina will be the same, also on the (new) strap-button.

ike

 

[bobwrighter]

thats good enough for me thanks ike, MD werner. looking at other pics the back strap button does seem closer to the triggerguard, wonder why the owner moved it.

 

[Ike Godsey]

thats good enough for me thanks ike, MD werner. looking at other pics the back strap button does seem closer to the triggerguard, wonder why the owner moved it.

there are many reasons for this.
we must understand, that the way the strap button was originally installed. it was not screwed in! there was a kind of plug and the button got a hole in it were the plug went through.
so you put the button through the plate, the plug through the hole and the you screw the plate to the stock. - got it?

if that plug moves out of the hole for some reason, the button will fall out. maybe that was the case.

or maybe the button was to close thowards the trigger guard and the original owner moved it because he did not like it there?

ike

 

[bobwrighter]

thanks ike. what date do you think this is? and the neustat is the austrian neustadt?

 

[Ike Godsey]

we're not sure. we would consider its about 1730 - 1750. but keep in mind, that they have used their weapons for quite some time. so one can easily find its use after 1800.

the "neustadt" is VERY unclear! reason for that is, that in the old days, there have been a lot of manufacturers over here, working for the varius earls, lords and kings, we had at the times when germany was divided in many small "countrys". take a look at the maps:
http://www.pantel-web.de/bw_mirror/maps/maps.htm

the city of neustadt is a name that was and is VERY common. consider the following: in the aera where i live (near nuernberg) there are about 5 different "neustadt" within a hour drive.
now consider this to the german speaking countrys in the 18ths - germany and austria. but we'll keep trying...

ike

 

[bobwrighter]

I guess that makes finding out who M.I S.P is a lot more difficult. . vielen dank fur deine helfe

 

[Ike Godsey]

well, there is a book from most - not all, but most gunmakers in germany and some from austria, that lists the name, the city, their apprenticeship by, and when they have been working. the problem is, the book is long out of print, and if you can get one - it is about 750 euros, which is around 900US$.

but if i could get my nose in one, i'll look for the gunmakers in neustadt.

additionally i sent the pic-link to a couple of collectors here in germany and austria with a request for help identifying this pice. lets see what they will bring up to light.

de nada seems we can continue in german - what a surprise.

ike

 

[Ike Godsey]

i have discovered a address in the US that might be of interest for you:

German Gun Collectors Association USA
P. O. Box 385
Meriden, NH 03770 USA
http://www.germanguns.com/

contact: Dietrich Apel, dues U.S. $60,00

maybe they could help?

ike

 

[bobwrighter]

I think English might be safer..actually im in the uk, and this gun came from France. Most of the information on jaegers on the internet seems to be based on their use in the early US, hence my post here. Do you think the M.I. S.P. refers to the barrel maker only or the whole gun, thanks ike you've been loads of helfe

 

[bobwrighter]

great thanks very much!

 

[Ike Godsey]

I think English might be safer..actually im in the uk, and this gun came from France. Most of the information on jaegers on the internet seems to be based on their use in the early US, hence my post here. Do you think the M.I. S.P. refers to the barrel maker only or the whole gun, thanks ike you've been loads of helfe

i am not sure on this.
from the 17th century on there have been some barrel makers around, but most gunmakers signed their guns either on the barrel or on the lock. if the barrel came from a barrel maker, its sign is most likley hide by the wood.

most gun makers produced their own barrels.

ike

 

[bobwrighter]

Thanks again Ike. One other question. Most of the military versions of this model I have seen have the simpler triggerguard without the inner scroll.. is this a military style? or a date thing ie earlier ones have the more basic triggerguard, later ones like mine? or regional style?