Anyone have any experience with these guns? Are they any good? How are they for accuracy with a PRB? Would the Parker Hale Enfield be a better choice for a hunting rifle for elk? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Antonio Zoli Zouave ?
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The real Parker Hale rifled musket should be about twice the price of the Zoli and worth every penny. That said, the Zoli, for an Itiallian rifled musket is about as good as any other Itialian rifled musket and better than some.
: Both the muskets mentioned are good for Mose or Elk with a round ball. With minie bullets, they lose efficiency & effectiveness against these animals.
: Go by the Lyman BP handbook for loads and use whatever your should er says you can.
: In mine, I used up to 150gr. 2F GOEX. This was a good load that shot into 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds. off the bags. Obviously, it was an accurate load in this particular ZOLI rifle. I used .575 balls and a .018 patch. .562 balls were innacurate in my rifle, while .570's were OK.
: Both the muskets mentioned are good for Mose or Elk with a round ball. With minie bullets, they lose efficiency & effectiveness against these animals.
: Go by the Lyman BP handbook for loads and use whatever your should er says you can.
: In mine, I used up to 150gr. 2F GOEX. This was a good load that shot into 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds. off the bags. Obviously, it was an accurate load in this particular ZOLI rifle. I used .575 balls and a .018 patch. .562 balls were innacurate in my rifle, while .570's were OK.
Guest
The real Parker Hale rifled musket should be about twice the price of the Zoli and worth every penny. That said, the Zoli, for an Itiallian rifled musket is about as good as any other Itialian rifled musket and better than some.
: Both the muskets mentioned are good for Mose or Elk with a round ball. With minie bullets, they lose efficiency & effectiveness against these animals.
: Go by the Lyman BP handbook for loads and use whatever your should er says you can.
: In mine, I used up to 150gr. 2F GOEX. This was a good load that shot into 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds. off the bags. Obviously, it was an accurate load in this particular ZOLI rifle. I used .575 balls and a .018 patch. .562 balls were innacurate in my rifle, while .570's were OK.
: Both the muskets mentioned are good for Mose or Elk with a round ball. With minie bullets, they lose efficiency & effectiveness against these animals.
: Go by the Lyman BP handbook for loads and use whatever your should er says you can.
: In mine, I used up to 150gr. 2F GOEX. This was a good load that shot into 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds. off the bags. Obviously, it was an accurate load in this particular ZOLI rifle. I used .575 balls and a .018 patch. .562 balls were innacurate in my rifle, while .570's were OK.
Thanks again Daryl. I have a bid in on a Parker Hale too. Just waiting to see how much they end up going for. I missed a zouave this morning by $5. It went for only $195. Should have placed another bid on it.
vanderbilt330
32 Cal.
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Daryl
Just got an Antonio Zoli Zouave also and have been looking for info on loads for it too. I would like to shoot minie ball but am open to round ball also. Whta size minie ball should I use?
I don't have any accessories as of yet for the rifle but hope to order some soon.
The only power around here is 2F Hodsen triple 7. Do you think it will work as well as GOEX powder.
Thanks for any reply... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Just got an Antonio Zoli Zouave also and have been looking for info on loads for it too. I would like to shoot minie ball but am open to round ball also. Whta size minie ball should I use?
I don't have any accessories as of yet for the rifle but hope to order some soon.
The only power around here is 2F Hodsen triple 7. Do you think it will work as well as GOEX powder.
Thanks for any reply... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Guest
1st of all, I don't think T7 will work as well as real BP. If it is all you can get, by all means, use it.
: Drop normal BP loads by abut 20% with the Triple 7. By that I mean, if for hunting, use 80 to 120gr. of Triple 7 for a hunting load for RB depending on the game you seak. For deer, the 80 gr. charge will give a fairly flat trajectory out to 120yds. and will work just fine on deer or antelope. For elk or moose, you need more steam and the RB will still be better then a minnie on them. The only advantage the minie could have is depth of penetration and the RB will make the off side of either massive animal every time, so the minnie isn't needed. On the negative side, the minnies have no point=blank range meaning they have an incredibly arched trajectory, while the RB travels like a lazer in comparrison. To use enough powder with a minnie to make it fly flatly enough, you would need much more than your shoulder or the gun could probably stand - stick with the round ball- it's the best & will also give better accuracy.
: My experience with the PH Enfields is that they (2-band & 3 band rifles) are extremely accurate with RB and very well made, indeed. They need a raised front sight, as do most Zouaves.
: Drop normal BP loads by abut 20% with the Triple 7. By that I mean, if for hunting, use 80 to 120gr. of Triple 7 for a hunting load for RB depending on the game you seak. For deer, the 80 gr. charge will give a fairly flat trajectory out to 120yds. and will work just fine on deer or antelope. For elk or moose, you need more steam and the RB will still be better then a minnie on them. The only advantage the minie could have is depth of penetration and the RB will make the off side of either massive animal every time, so the minnie isn't needed. On the negative side, the minnies have no point=blank range meaning they have an incredibly arched trajectory, while the RB travels like a lazer in comparrison. To use enough powder with a minnie to make it fly flatly enough, you would need much more than your shoulder or the gun could probably stand - stick with the round ball- it's the best & will also give better accuracy.
: My experience with the PH Enfields is that they (2-band & 3 band rifles) are extremely accurate with RB and very well made, indeed. They need a raised front sight, as do most Zouaves.
Daryl touched on it, but IMO it is worth saying a little more.
The hot loads he is talking about should never be used with a Minie style slug.
With a round ball, because of the balls light weight, his loads are probably safe but when you put 140+grains of powder behind a 450+ grain bullet you are entering the world of proof loads for thin walled barrels like the musket has.
The .58 cal rifled muskets of the Civil War were made to fire 65 grain powder loads behind the "Minie ball" slug.
The hot loads he is talking about should never be used with a Minie style slug.
With a round ball, because of the balls light weight, his loads are probably safe but when you put 140+grains of powder behind a 450+ grain bullet you are entering the world of proof loads for thin walled barrels like the musket has.
The .58 cal rifled muskets of the Civil War were made to fire 65 grain powder loads behind the "Minie ball" slug.
shooter575
32 Cal.
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My first b/p rifle was a Zoli Zouave.Bought it new for 78 bucks right out of high school.I have been shooting minnes ever since. They are a diffrent breed to get used to though.
As Daryl said it in not a flat shooting[url] bullet.In[/url] most of my minne rifles there is about a 8-10" drop at 100 yd. if sighted in at 50yd.But if you can get your ranges right they can you.A good minne bullet/load will out preform a RB when ranges get out past 125 yd or so.
Here is what I do
First off you need a minne that is .001-.002 under bore size.Must be of soft lead.They must be prefect.Skirts must have no voids,wrinkles or be bent..Target loads in the 40-50 gr range work well.ff or fff will work.I have never used the bp copies.But many have.Your front sight will need to be about .100 taller to be on at 50 yd.
Lube the sides of the minne with a good lube SPG,MCM or bore butter/beeswax mix 50/50.
A good set up can shoot one big hole at 50. 2"at 100.It just takes a while to get there. As Zonie said the Civil War loads were 65 gr.The steel used today is much tougher that the wrought iron used in orgionals.I would set my upper limit at 75gr or so.The skirt is the weak point in a minne ball.Much over that they will start to fail unless real thick one are used.
The other thing is you will need to cast your own.Or hookup with some one that does.The minnes sold by Dixie and others are junk.Only persom making good ones for sale that I know of is
Patrick Kaboskey in Wi. Ph # 262-363-4625
He has many types and will size to what ever you need.
Hope this helps
Jim
As Daryl said it in not a flat shooting[url] bullet.In[/url] most of my minne rifles there is about a 8-10" drop at 100 yd. if sighted in at 50yd.But if you can get your ranges right they can you.A good minne bullet/load will out preform a RB when ranges get out past 125 yd or so.
Here is what I do
First off you need a minne that is .001-.002 under bore size.Must be of soft lead.They must be prefect.Skirts must have no voids,wrinkles or be bent..Target loads in the 40-50 gr range work well.ff or fff will work.I have never used the bp copies.But many have.Your front sight will need to be about .100 taller to be on at 50 yd.
Lube the sides of the minne with a good lube SPG,MCM or bore butter/beeswax mix 50/50.
A good set up can shoot one big hole at 50. 2"at 100.It just takes a while to get there. As Zonie said the Civil War loads were 65 gr.The steel used today is much tougher that the wrought iron used in orgionals.I would set my upper limit at 75gr or so.The skirt is the weak point in a minne ball.Much over that they will start to fail unless real thick one are used.
The other thing is you will need to cast your own.Or hookup with some one that does.The minnes sold by Dixie and others are junk.Only persom making good ones for sale that I know of is
Patrick Kaboskey in Wi. Ph # 262-363-4625
He has many types and will size to what ever you need.
Hope this helps
Jim
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the information Jim. I don't know that i would be shooting mini's in it.I would like to get it to shoot rd. balls. I prefer the rd balls for hunting, in all calibers. I haven't had much luck with Great Plains bullete or Buffalo Bullets on deer. They just punch right through and don't seem to expand much. I have had better results with rd. balls. But thanks again for the info and the contact for mini's. Take care.
shooter575
32 Cal.
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The minnes get a bad rap on hunting.I have had real good luck with them.One job I had required me us to shoot 30-40 head of whitetails a year.We could use any rifle. I used a 53 Enfield with my target loads of 45 gr ff and a Lee wadcutter minne [ashcan] I must of shot a dozen with this set up.Only one walked off about 30 yd .Others droped in place.One minne I recovered expanded to over a inch. This load MV is about 950 fps.Deer ran between 120 to 190 lb.All were shot at 50-100 yd.After the C/W many vets took theirs home.Millons more were sold as surplus.The westward movement brought them along.I bet that more big game was taken with the standard C/W musket than all the Hawken types combined as their were so many of them.
Jim
Jim
Jim, i can see where a flat nose wadcutter type mini might expand. But i haven't had any luck with the round nose ones. But i still like the rd. ball, higher velocity, flatter tradjectory. And a .58 cal. rd. ball is already big enough to take any game i'm likely to hunt. Thanks for the info though. Take care.
Guest
Rebel- the RB's worked much better of big moose, whether from a 48' or 72" twist. The Moose invariably gave definite sign(shudder or partial colapse) when struck, which seemed fleeting when the minnies or REAL's were used.
: With much flatter trajectory, higher striking velocities and ample penetration (side to side as well as for quartering shots) the RB's were superior in every way except perhaps for speed of loading. With practise, even that gap can be narrowed to insignificance. A fast second shot or finishing shot can be a simple paper ctg. with ball inside. Just tear of the base with your teeth, then push everything else down to the breech with the rod. A short starter isn't needed, generally. As you pull the rod out, the powder will drain down the barrel from the ctg. and the paper will then act as a wad with the paper on each side of the ball taking up the windage.
:
: With much flatter trajectory, higher striking velocities and ample penetration (side to side as well as for quartering shots) the RB's were superior in every way except perhaps for speed of loading. With practise, even that gap can be narrowed to insignificance. A fast second shot or finishing shot can be a simple paper ctg. with ball inside. Just tear of the base with your teeth, then push everything else down to the breech with the rod. A short starter isn't needed, generally. As you pull the rod out, the powder will drain down the barrel from the ctg. and the paper will then act as a wad with the paper on each side of the ball taking up the windage.
:
Daryl, thanks again for the info. I know about the paper cartidges, but have never tried them. It is so dry around here the past few years, that i worry they would start a fire after firing. We SURE need some rain. Take care.
Guest
We have over 300 fires burning now and it's tinder dry with hot temps and enough wind to make it very dangerous to fight them. Play catch-up is aobut all that's happening.
: I will refrain from any BP or other shooting until things cool down - apparently cooler this weekend, but then it's supposed to heat up after that again.
: I will refrain from any BP or other shooting until things cool down - apparently cooler this weekend, but then it's supposed to heat up after that again.
Guest
Oh yes- a further note, due to pressures involved, we figured the .58 would be about the samllest bore that would allow full charge hunting-type loads with paper ctgs. without spoiling accuracy. The US army issued paper ctgs. in .54 as well, but with presures around 14,000LUP with hunting loads, I didn't think they'd hold up accuracy without cloth patches. Due to much lower pressures in the larger bores, paper ctgs. do work as well as cloth, but foul more, of course.
: I will be indebted if you follow up with this test for me.
: In the .69 and .75's there is no drop in accuracy using paper ctgs. with .005" under bore sized balls. I am assuming with barrels down to .58 cal, the results will be similar.
: I will be indebted if you follow up with this test for me.
: In the .69 and .75's there is no drop in accuracy using paper ctgs. with .005" under bore sized balls. I am assuming with barrels down to .58 cal, the results will be similar.
Daryl, ya lost me somewhere. You would be indebted if i followed up what test for you?
Guest
Ahh- testing paper ctgs. in the .58 rifled musket. As I noted above, I've only tried them down to .69 cal, but expect them to function as well as patched balls, accuracy wise, down to .58 cal.
; The reason for using paper ctgs., of course, is for a fast second shot when hunting. I was able to load my 14 bore rifle, capped and ready to shoot in 8 seconds when using ctgs. They're THAT fast. Some practise is necessary.
; The reason for using paper ctgs., of course, is for a fast second shot when hunting. I was able to load my 14 bore rifle, capped and ready to shoot in 8 seconds when using ctgs. They're THAT fast. Some practise is necessary.
Daryl, well, if i ever get a .58 rifled musket i will give it a try. Right now it is going to be a bit hard to do since i don't own one. Been looking at a few on auctions, even bidding on some of them, but the prices keep going up to more than i want to go on one. Maybe someday. Take care, and let us know when that new Baby arrives. :: ::
Guest
OK - thought you were buying the Zouave - that's where the .58 cal. questions, etc. came from.
