Any American style rifle kits similar to an English Sporting Rifle?

[user 31336]

I’m interested in building a shorter flintlock rifle in .50 or .54 than the Colonial Rifle kit by Jim Kiebler I built last Fall. One kit I’ve seen on-line, that I like several aspects of, is Jim Chambers’s English Gentlemen’s Sporting Rifle (Model RK-12).

I like that the full length stock, and the overall length of 46 1/4” will make air travel with it far easier than my Colonial Rifle. I would use it to travel and hunt deer with.

So, while Jim Chambers’s English Gentlemen’s Sporting Rifle may be the next kit I build, I was wondering if there are any similar length, mid 1700’s to early 1800 era style kits that are of American rifle designs, that also have full length stocks?

 

[tenngun]

For early or at least mid third ‘trade rifle’ designs such as the Leman were made in 30 something inches and full or half stocks. Ohio/ Michigan styles were mostly half stocks but early on shorter full stocks was common on these elegant guns. Some American Muskets were according to Russel were sawn off by six inches and traded in to the west. The Hawkin brothers made full stock shorter balled precision guns. Although we think plains rifle with them they did make a lot of elegant brass and silver mounted full stock smaller caliber guns.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
American rifles from the period you are interested in had longer barrels. The Edward Marshall rifle had a 37-38" barrel, which is one of the shortest of which we know from that time. Chambers as well as several other suppliers make "Isaac Haines" kits with 38" barrels. The barrel length is not correct for any original Haines gun but the kits use them regardless. Dave Price makes a great swivel breech kit usually with 32" barrels. It is flintlock but is contemporary and does not represent any historical school or style. Chambers English rifle is a fine shooting gun and you would be hard pressed to find better with respect to shooting qualities, however, it is based on a modern-made version of an English rifle by Bob Harn rather than any original gun. It is not a copy of the Turvey gun as claimed.

dave

 

[Grenadier1758]

Have you taken a look at the offerings from the Rifle Shoppe. The have parts listing for several English rifles in the English fowler and lock section (http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/english_fowlers_locks/English_Fowlers.htm). Its too bad they don't have pictures of the rifles and I'm not sure if the catalog is available. You would have to call to verify availability.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
As I understand Wentwest, he is interested in kit guns or parts sets to make an American rifle with a short barrel from the mid 1700s to the early 1800s. I presume flintlocks because of the time period and he wants it full stocked. The options are not numerous.

dave

 

[Grenadier1758]

Wentwest may want to take a look at the rifles illustrated with full scale plans in Hanson's "Trade Rifle Sketch Book".

 

[rich pierce]

Nothing made in the colonies in that length range. Or extremely rare.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Most of the American rifles would have barrels of 41.5" to 44" long when built with a full length stock. Later half stock percussion Tyron percussion rifles had barrels in the 31" range. Some percussion Henry's also half stocked were barreled to 35".

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I can point out several early American guns in RCA I&II with barrels around about 32" or a bit less. But I will say, they are very rare. The Eddie Marshal gun has a 37"-38" barrel, which is on the short side for a 'normal" early KY rifle.

 

[hanshi]

If I had your delima I build a Jaeger; love those things.

 

[user 31336]

Thank you all for the replies and information. I'll give some thought to my options, research some more, armed with the new information and leads you all have given me, and eventually make a decision. I'm probably a couple of months away from making any purchase. Thank you again, everyone!

 

[The Crisco Kid]

It sounds to me that you are at that point in your gun building career where you need to quit the kits and buy the parts so that you can build what you want. It's a rewarding adventure. What ever you build will most likely resemble something that someone, somewhere, built a couple of hundred years ago anyway so don't worry about trying to stay within a certain format. Draw up a full scale model on a sheet of wrapping paper and see if you can come up with something that suits your fancy. If one doesn't suit you, try again.

 

[dave_person]

I can point out several early American guns in RCA I&II with barrels around about 32" or a bit less. But I will say, they are very rare. The Eddie Marshal gun has a 37"-38" barrel, which is on the short side for a 'normal" early KY rifle.

Hi CN,
You are right but the OP was asking for available kit guns for historically American guns with short barrels and full stocks representing his time period. Again the options are very limited and none with barrels less than 37".

dave

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I like the idea, but I'm thinking of even more compact, so I'm considering buying Pedersoli "Bounty" pistol in .50 in a kit, and modifying it to take a shoulder stock. It's a 16" barrel so it should be good for deer out to 50 yards or so.

On the other hand, I know of two extant example of flintlocks modified by the Italians to have a folding stock...


and,..


So IF you had something in say a 30" swamped barrel, in a Jaeger package, and then the stock folded at the wrist ??? The biggest problem is that the trigger guard holds the hinge and the hinge needs to be robust enough to hold the stock pieces well and the latch too must be strong enough to but up with hard use.

LD

 

[jbwilliams3]

I'm partial to English sporting rifles and Chamber's kit is a good one. I'm not aware of anyone making any Jeager rifle kits that are as high quality as Chamber's English rifle kit, though a Germanic style is another good option for a short rifle. Chamber's Little Feller Kit is like a scaled-down longrifle at 34" barrel length, though it is pragmatically conjectural as far as its pattern. There are definitely folks who have made "transitional" rifles, having characteristics of both Germanic/Dutch/ etc. Jaeger rifles and the developing longrifle. Theoretically, a mid-18th century rifle by a German-trained gunsmith could have a shorter barrel, a la the Marshall rifle, but evidence seems scant for colonial stocked rifles in the ballpark of what we would consider Jaeger-length barrels.