Any Brown Bess Experts?

[Dross]

Hi,

It's my first post here and I was hoping I could draw on the expertise here to help me with my new Brown Bess. A friend of mine bought me a Pedersoli kit that I'm in the process of assembling.

I'm trying to identify what parts I need for when I'm ready to try firing it. Someone on an Irish site was kind enough to provide me with the following recommendations:

“If you do decide to shoot it, start with 80 grains of FFg blackpowder under a .715 round ball patched with a lubed pillow ticking patch, you can prime with the same powder.”

Why a .715 ball? Wouldn't a .730 be better? What would you use?

At Dixie Gun Works, I can see some .60 - .69 Ticking patches but that's probably too small right? I should be looking for a .70 - .79 patch? I didn't see one on the site though...

I see the 1" pieces of flint which look like they are for my Brown Bess.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[paulvallandigham]

First: ACtually measure the bore on your replica Brown Bess. There are variations in bore diameters. It may be anything from .72 to.75 in caliber. For ease of loading and accuracy, you want to use a ball that is small enough in size that you can wrap the ball with lubed fabric to keep the ball in place, but allow fairly easy loading. PIllow ticking is commonly used. My suggestion is to go to a fabric store, and buy some fabric by the yard, using a micrometer or caliper to choose the correct thickness for you chosen ball and barrel. Expect the fabric to be able to compress about 1/3 its "dry " thickness.

Wash the fabric at home to remove the sizing so that it will take lubes easier. It also softens the fabric, and makes it easier to " stretch" when a close fit is required.

The .715 ball is probably the most often used ball for most of the Replica Brown Besses. If you use the .730" diameter balls, you probably will have to use them bare, or at most, dipped in beeswax and dried to coat the ball. To hold them in the barrel, use Tow or an OverShot card. The problem with shooting bare balls is that they may not give the best accuracy, and you are likely to leave lead deposits in the barrel. As they build up, they also hold powder residue, and eventually make it next to impossible to load another ball down the barrel without first taking the time to use Lead Solvent and a bore brush to clean the lead out of the barrel. That is a lot of work.

When you wrap a ball with a cloth patch, NO lead touches the barrel, and all you have to deal with is BP residue. This is easily cleaned out of the barrel with water and soap. Compare that to scrubbing the barrel with a bore brush and using a lead solvent for 15-30 minutes to clean the barrel of lead.

That is why people use the smaller diameter balls(.715). Depending on the diameter of your barrel, you may need to use a fabric that is thicker than pillow ticking, which runs from .010 to about .018, usually. ( I measured three different colored pillow ticking products at Walmart one evening and got three different thicknesses!)

You can also buy Strips of pillow ticking of a designated thickness from the suppliers, if you don't want to go to your fabric store yourself. ( I found the women fascinated that a man would enter their world,( they say) and then pull out a micrometer- something most had never seen up close-- to measure the thickness of cloth. That is just not how women buy cloth! The last time, the sales lady finally asked me what I was buying the cloth for. When I told her it was for my flintlock shotgun, the look on her face was priceless!)

 

[Many Klatch]

It seems that the .715 ball is sized for the Pedersoli Bess carbine like I have. The .735 ball seems to work better in the full sized Bess. Like Paul says mike the inside of the barrel to make sure. I find that a .010 patch over 90 grains of 2F makes a good accurate round for my Bess. You can dispense with buying precut patches for a while until you figure out how your gun works. Take a long strip of right sized cloth. After you have poured powder in the barrel, put a spit soaked part of the strip over the end of the barrel. Take one ball and thumb start it down into the barre. If it is sized right the ball should easily go into the barrel. Push the ball down till flush with the top of the barrel. Cut off all the fabric that sticks out. Now you have a patched ball. Pull the ramrod and send the ball till it firmly seats on the powder. Now put some 2f in the pan, and you are ready.

For a starter make sure that whatever fabric you use is 100% natural cotton or linen. You don't want polyester getting melted on the inside of your barrel. Old sheets work good, muslin can be good if it is tight enough. Linen table cloths from a garage sale can be good. Just be sure to wash the starch out before you try to use it.

Many Klatch

 

[J.D.]

Paul is right on about the .715 vs the .730 ball.

The bore of the Pedersoli bess is about.750, give or take a few thousandths.

IMHO, it will take a mallet to load a .730 ball with a .010 patch,at least in my experience...and that is with a clean bore.

The rule of thumb in choosing a patch ball combination for a smoothbore is to use a ball .030-.040 smaller than true bore diameter, then choose a patch thickness to make up the difference, and then some. A smaller diameter ball with a thick patch is usually much easier to load, but will still shoot accurately.

A friend shoots a .720 ball patched with .018 patching that shoots with the best of them.

I shoot a .718 ball with .018 patching that also shoots very well.

The .718 ball is the result of casting hard alloy lead balls in a .715 mould. I don't know where Ray found a .720 mould.

You may have to search a local fabric store for the correct patch material. Use 100% cotton pillow ticking, denim, or #40 cotton drill. I prefer the cotton drill, which is a relatively light canvas.

With diligence in working up an accurate load and plenty of dedicated practice, you might shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards like another poster claims. :v

Good luck,
J.D.

 

[trent/OH]

First and foremost, you have a really good friend to buy you a musket!
Secondly, you are in for some serious FUN when you get her assembled!
And the Irishman who said "If you decide to shoot it...", well, I think we can discount him now. Imagine having a gun and NOT shooting it!?!?!???"

 

[ian45662]

I doubt they they are as accurate as a cloth patch but I like to make up paper cartridges and dip the bullet end in some lube. I just open the cartridge pour powder down the barrel and ram the rest of it down the barrel. Then prime and fire.

 

[bebloomster]

I too am a paper cartridge person.... it just goes naturally with a Brown Bess. I use a .715 ball and 75gr FFFg. The cartridge is made from recycled news print... 2 wraps thick and the ball end dipped in melted Crisco. May not be quite as accurate as a patched round ball but I can usually hit what I am pointing at within 50 yards.

 

[JackAubrey]

You have gotten very good advice from these fine gentlemen.I've been shooting my Brown Bess for 14 years and take it quite seriously.Yet I always learn something every time I log on here!When I first bought my Bess, the literature that came with said I should use a patched .735 ball.It truly was a chore putting that down bore.I almost had to use a mallet and that was with no fouling!So I swabbed between shots and at 25 yards it was amazingly accurate, but slow.I switched to the .715 and now I can have a few more fires before swabbing.Accuracy is acceptable to 50-60 yards.Now, I did make up some paper cartridges using some old .735's and they work.Not particularly accurate but relatively quick reload.I keep a few at hand when hunting if a quick follow up shot is required.Welcome to the forum,you're gonna love it here and you're gonna love Bess.Best regards,J.A.

 

[gjkershul]

My service load for trailwalks, military shoots, and whitetail is 80 gr of 3f. with a .735 Lyman ball ball in a computer print out paper cartridge. When time permits, I prime with 4f from a charger. The computer paper mikes at .0035 and two wraps bring the paper patched ball to close to the .749 muzzle diameter. Before puting the powder in the cartridge I dip the cartridge with the ball in place in hot paraffin (sp) wax to just cover the portion of the cartridge were the ball is.

To load, the cartridge is torn, the powder is poured and the cartridge is reversed and thumb loaded waxed portion first into the barrel. The portion of the cartidge now above thge crown of the barrel is then torn off leaving a waxed-for lubrication- paper patched ball which is then rammed home on top of the powder cahrge. If permitted by the event, it is advisa
able to reload with this type cartridge
immediately after firing when the barrel is warm from the previous discharge.

I find 1 inch to 1-1/8 flints work well with my Pedersoli Bess.

 

[robinghewitt]

Aren't you supposed to bite the ball of the end of the cartridge, prime the pan, pour in the powder, spit the ball in to the muzzle, stuff in what's left of the paper then ram? OTOH I don't suppose you are in such a hurry to load when you're shooting white tail rather than Frenchies :rotf:

 

[gjkershul]

I have done it that way, but find the taste of the unburned powder throws off my concentration and degrades accuracy.

 

[temple]

i started with a batch of .730 w/ 90 ffg. it worked for the first few shots, but after a while you really have to horse that ball down the barrel. i switched to .715 and i do great with that. i've tried different powder charges and i've never noticed differences in accuracy. it's up to you. as far as patches i use what i have (usually old t-shirt) lubed with bore butter(be sure to not use petroleum based stuff with the bore butter). then my favorite cleaning product is the left over camp coffee. just plug the touch hole and swish the coffee around and either run patches or tow.

 

[bebloomster]

Before putting the powder in the cartridge I dip the cartridge with the ball in place in hot paraffin (sp) wax to just cover the portion of the cartridge were the ball is.

Hamkiller... how is the resulting fouling/residue? I use a .715 ball with 80gr GOEX FFFg and a cartridge made from 2 wraps of recycled newsprint. I've tried a lot of the various combinations involving tallow, paraffin, beeswax, olive oil, etc but have seldom been able to get more than 6 shots off before the fouling becomes so heavy that it is really difficult to load again. A lot of times it has also been hard and crusty... almost like a coating of carbon or coal. Now I use melted Crisco brand shortening... the fouling remains soft and I can usually get up to 40 shots off without having to run a patch down the bore. The only drawback is that there is a limited shelflife to the lubed cartridges.... after a month or two the Crisco will wick through the recycled newsprint and contaminate the powder charge... whoof rather than bang. What has your experience been?

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Being a Militia man, I can shoot my musket on a 20 round trail walk without cleaning. Of course I am loading with a greased patch just like they used in 1776. Use tallow ( thin it with vegitable oil until right ) It has to be slick to work like this but it works well. When hunting I use just tallow. This will gum up after around 8 shots, but I have never had to shoot 8 shots when hunting. Ain't nothing more fun than shooting those big bore military flintlock muskets!!!

:thumbsup:

 

[gjkershul]

My normal practice went I was shooting 20-30 shot courses of musket ball fire-in the 90's- was to pour water down the barrel after 20 shots and pour it out. Then dry the bore and continue with the course of fire.
However, this was in the humid Midwest. Out here in God's country, with much less humidity I have noted that powder fouling is harder. Most of my paper cartidge shooting these days is with shotgun cartridge and I lube those cartridge with bore butter. The bore butter will also contaminate the powder over a period of time.

 

[Dross]

Hi All,

I just wanted to say thank you for all this great information. I had been very concerned I wouldn't be able to find detailed and friendly information before the Irishman directed me to this site. Obviously this won't be an issue now as there is a wealth of information here.

I just placed an order for some flints, a powder measure and barrel measure. I have to locate some place that sells black powder in Toronto next. Pedersoli has some resellers here so I'll start by contacting them.

I've finished staining the stock and will be applying linseed oil next. Once I'm done, assemble and fire!

Thanks again!!

 

[Croppy Boy]

before the Irishman directed me to this site.

Glad to see you got here, MaxGen.

There's nothing about muzzleloading these guys don't know. Just keep asking questions and you'll get the hang of it fairly quickly. :hatsoff:

 

[dukewellington]

A friend told me that most people could only fire about 7 shots from their bess before there shoulder started to cane. He said it was like 8 times more recoil than a 12gauge shotgun with hunting loads.

I was thinking of getting one for target aswell :shake:

 

[temple]

i think that whoever is telling you that is psyching themselves out. i've fired both weapons in the same shooting session and really notice no difference between them. i've fired many rounds from my bess and i can honestly say if you are holding it correctly (tight to the shoulder) you should be just fine.

 

[arquebus]

MaxGen, I just went to the GoEx website & checked out their list of distributors. Here's the one closest to you:

John Emmett
P.O. Box 442
Thorold, Ontario
Canada L2V 4J6
905-227-3342, FAX: 905-227-5851