Any one bought a Milita House gun before?

[Grenadier1758]

As Rat and Ranger Boyd stated, the practice of dating the locks was discontinued in 1764 due the belief that the muskets were old and dated. In truth the military board of ordnance had locks stockpiled so muskets made in 1750 might have locks with new-old stock locks and barrels that actually would have been better muskets than the Dutch and Potsdam muskets built to the Long Land Pattern.

 

[RAEDWALD]

That was why they stopped dating them. The system was for all the parts to be made and sent to store to be drawn upon when needed. At which time a set was taken from the items in store and stocked into a new musket so a lock could be in store for years before being made up into a musket and bear a date years ago whilst actually being unused. The stores system was to use the oldest pattern parts first. As muskets were worn out they were returned and the useable bits stored for reuse so a '1746' dated lock could be brand new in effect or have seen years of use. A stocker would literally get a set of barrels each full of one type of part and hand fit them to the stock.

People wonder where all the Pattern 1838 muskets went as so few survive but the locks were identical to Brunswick locks so they went into the Brunswick lock box after refurbishing, good barrels and odd iron items into boxes drawn upon for Extra Service muskets, rejected iron sold as scrap. The brass went to remelt for new patterns and the wood into fireplaces.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

The dates reflected the age of the musket. Who wouldn't want a new musket over an old one? Locks weren't interchangeable at that time, so a "drop in fit" didn't work. In fact, nothing is interchangeable on a bess. These were hand made and fitted one at a time.
Also, old model locks weren't saved and later put on newer model guns. If that were the case you'd see the old first model curved locks on newer 2nd model guns, and you just don't see it.

 

[Ranger Boyd]

The dates reflected the age of the musket. Who wouldn't want a new musket over an old one? Locks weren't interchangeable at that time, so a "drop in fit" didn't work. In fact, nothing is interchangeable on a bess. These were hand made and fitted one at a time.
Also, old model locks weren't saved and later put on newer model guns. If that were the case you'd see the old first model curved locks on newer 2nd model guns, and you just don't see it.

Not entirely true. While all locks (or any parts) required hand fitting, they were produced by different contractors and assembled into finished firearms as needed. Old dated locks did get into "newly" assembled muskets. I have seen an original 1769 short land with a leftover 1756 pattern long land lock dated 1762 (the short land and 1756 pattern both used the later straight lock).

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Not entirely true. While all locks (or any parts) required hand fitting, they were produced by different contractors and assembled into finished firearms as needed. Old dated locks did get into "newly" assembled muskets. I have seen an original 1769 short land with a leftover 1756 pattern long land lock dated 1762 (the short land and 1756 pattern both used the later straight lock).

That is something I have never seen.

 

[Ranger Boyd]

"Components were used up, or nearly so, before new batches were contracted for, and it was at the time of such new contracts that occasional changes or modifications to design were made. Old arms were broken up and usable components returned to storage bins..."
- DeWitt Bailey, Small Arms of the British Forces in North America, 16.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

"Components were used up, or nearly so, before new batches were contracted for, and it was at the time of such new contracts that occasional changes or modifications to design were made. Old arms were broken up and usable components returned to storage bins..."
- DeWitt Bailey, Small Arms of the British Forces in North America, 16.

I suspect it's been some time since I read that book. I got Bess fever out of my system after building three of them.

 

[FlinterNick]

Adam the gunmaker, he will design his guns with a Greg Christian Barrel or a Colraine, possibly Ed Rayl if you want to wait a few Years

I think he saves a little money by using used parts, non the less I’ve seen a few of his Tule muskets, they look like a 1728 Charleville but a little lighter. He makes nice guns, expect to pay between 1,300-2,000 depending on anything additional you want done. Example if you want to use a brand new lock from TRS or TOW it will increase the cost and labor.

Personally I like the idea of using used parts, if I could put a miruko Tower Bess Lock on a long land, that musket would be perfect.

 

[FlinterNick]

Not entirely true. While all locks (or any parts) required hand fitting, they were produced by different contractors and assembled into finished firearms as needed. Old dated locks did get into "newly" assembled muskets. I have seen an original 1769 short land with a leftover 1756 pattern long land lock dated 1762 (the short land and 1756 pattern both used the later straight lock).

The Grice 1762 lock would be appropriately dated for a later period Long Land (per Goldstein and Bailey), however that doesn’t negate the fact that the Pedersoli Lock is still flawed in some aspects that I would consider acceptable but some collectors cringe at it. The engravings are off, the springs are off and flintcock on the originals were somewhat thicker.

Folks from pedersoli tend to say that their lock is designed that way purposely so that its not passed off as original.

The Pedersoli Grice Lock was used on the Sandy McNabb and Kit Ravensheer Long Land Brown Bess muskets of 1976, even then they were considered poor reproductions because of the lock.

 

[Stantheman86]

I like it, if he'd make me a 1795 or 1816 Springfield with a barrel from a good manufacturer, I'd wait 2 years for that.

Guys like him fill the market for people who want a repro military Musket that's a cut above a Pedersoli.

 

[FlinterNick]

I like it, if he'd make me a 1795 or 1816 Springfield with a barrel from a good manufacturer, I'd wait 2 years for that.

Guys like him fill the market for people who want a repro military Musket that's a cut above a Pedersoli.

Personally I think reinactors go a little to far with period correctness. Its not like you’d find a long land Brown Bess that is ‘perfect’ for the time period, there are no 2 Brown Bess’ muskets I’ve ever seen that are identical from the original periods.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm more interested in an American made Springfield musket that I can shoot a lot.

Reenactors go nutty over details that 99% of people don't even care about.

In fact , I've watched Last of the Mohicans 100 times and couldn't even tell you what kind of Brown Besses the British soldiers are using.

 

[FlinterNick]

I'm more interested in an American made Springfield musket that I can shoot a lot.

Reenactors go nutty over details that 99% of people don't even care about.

In fact , I've watched Last of the Mohicans 100 times and couldn't even tell you what kind of Brown Besses the British soldiers are using.

I agree 100%

I once had someone lecture me on how my Miruko Charleville wasn’t period correct for Revolutionary War and the issue was that the trumpeted ram rod was not button tipped like an original.

Sometimes the reinactors think that period correctness is limited to such finite details when in fact most 18tch century muskets are all different from each other even in the same pattern. I’ve never seen any two original Charlevilles or Brown Bess muskets that were identically the same.

 

[Stantheman86]

These things were hand fitted and up until what, the 1840's? Parts weren't interchangeable and had to be fitted.

Pierre might have shaped his stocks differently than Paul, at the St Etienne arsenal. And maybe they used up old ramrods or the soldier lost his rod and picked up one from a different musket.

Plus muskets were used, handled and maintained by in some cases 1,000s of different people like American militia muskets. In 1861 there were still pre-Revolutionary Brown Besses in US Militia arsenals. Who knows what kinds of parts they had in them.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Pieces were all hand made, that is correct, but the parts and the finished product had to match the pattern. They may not have been identical and the parts would not be interchangeable, but each one would conform to the established pattern. Maybe the origin of the final product has to look like the pattern from 10 feet away. A button ram rod or a trumpet tip would conform to pattern.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’ll let you know, I have an order in with him for a kit assembly.

 

[Bcarrington]

I pulled the trigger and put a deposit down on a custom Brown Bess. Adam said it will take a bit to get done, there were a few projects in line ahead of me.

 

[Tumbledown]

Personally I think reinactors go a little to far with period correctness. Its not like you’d find a long land Brown Bess that is ‘perfect’ for the time period, there are no 2 Brown Bess’ muskets I’ve ever seen that are identical from the original periods.

I wonder how many potential reenactors are turned off or away by the requirements of details only museum curators would be aware of...

When putting on a show for John Q Public, is anyone really going to notice that someone's particular Bess wasn't issued to troops in that particular battle?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Based on my experience, the general public will not notice.

As a unit, we welcome people who want to participate in our portrayal of the F&I War. There is a grace period to get the equipment together, but we strive for reasonable correctness of uniform. We also accept Land Pattern Muskets of First, Second and even Third model. Well, we do insist that the wood cartridge block for our belly box is red as displayed in the First Royals Museum in Edinburgh Castle rather than black.

We want the reenacting experience to be enjoyable and affordable as well as educational.

 

[ugly old guy]

We want the reenacting experience to be enjoyable and affordable as well as educational.

LOL good luck with "affordable".

I did CW Reeinactments for a little while.
I was Confederate because that cost (in 1987 dollars) about $6,000 less than being Union.

My gray wool pants came from a third hand store, (I sewed on the red (artillary) 1SGT stripe down the legs myself)
My paisly shirt from the same source.

My boots ...lets not talk about them ... they were not pc/hc (I couldn't afford the hundreds of dollars for period footwear)
When I started my rifle was a CVA Percussion "Kentucky" (acceptable since a lot of confederates were never issued an arm, and used whatever they brought with them from home. I did find and buyvan original confederate issue .69 caliber smoothbore musket at a yard sale, of all places, and used it the last year I was involved.)

I had the "wrong" jacket, eye glasses, hair cut, haversack/possibles bag, powder flask, cap pouch and other leather ...
So far as I know, none of the spectators noticed or cared that I wasn't PC/HA. (other reeinactors did, of course.)

Thank goodness I'm "too old" to partcipate now as anything but a suttler or shoppe keeper.
Physical disabilities prevent even that now.

"Period Correct" wheelchairs are not made, and I've never seen an original from that era for sale.