Aquafortis problems

[barebackjack]

Im not so sure this is a problem, it may just be the nature of AF.

Ive been experimenting with some AF from track of the wolf. Ive been following their instructions from their website to the letter. But for some reason I keep on getting the exact same color.

Ive tried 100% stength of their solution, a 50% dilution, and a 25% silution, but keep getting the same color. All wayyyyyy to dark.

The only color difference I can get is in neutralizing with lye to get a more reddish tone, versus baking soda which leaves it more brown.

I cannot get the figure to stand out with high contrast like on some of your gentlemens fine guns (the wood in striped, I did a test with some laurel mountain stain and it looked great) but cant get it to work with the AF.

Here is my process....
1. Apply AF
2. Blush till the green goes away (ive tried blushing while wet as well as letting the solution dry before blushing....no difference)
3. Rub back with a green abrasive pad and water till the wood looks like an old barn board
4. Neutralize (some with baking soda, some with lye.....prefer the lye for the reddish/orange undertones)
5. Buff some more with 0000 steel wool
6. Lots of coats of tru-oil

What am I doing wrong? You can see the figure, but the contrast just isnt what Ive seen from some of your guys examples.

I would really like a very mellow yellow tone, and the instructions claim this can be obtained with a 50% dilution, but not in my tests.

The wood is red maple, if that matters.

Any help would be great.

Thanks in advance

Boone

 

[Dickert54cal]

Is this the color you wanted??

If so, I used AF then a hair dryer for heat. Followed by sanding with 400 grit then a second application. Then the wet baking soada treatment then waxed with a thick paste wax. :hatsoff:

 

[bioprof]

You may want to try diluting wayyyyyyyy more. AF is strong stuff. Try diluting it to 1:6 or more. Also, I strongly suspect that many makers use AF to bring out the contrast in the curl and then apply an overcoat with LMF stain to get the color you want. I don't believe there is any way to completely control the color you want with AF. Every piece of wood is different and will give you a slightly different color. Also, try experimenting with a piece of wood from the same stock. I've found that end grain will be a lot darker though. Burnishing may help prevent it from getting so dark. Finally, you won't get the 3D effect until you apply several coats of finish. If you don't like what you end up with, you can always sand it off and start over again, but it's a lot easier to experiment ahead of time. I've used AF on three guns and still don't have it figured out. Sorry this is so rambling.

 

[Bubba45]

I steel wool it back after the heating process and apply other stains depending on color I want.

 

[Stophel]

I think people are making this too complicated.

All of the maple stocked guns on my photo album[url] www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks[/url] are stained with aqua fortis and nothing else. (the gun that is called the "1750's German-American" gun that is real dark was finished with oil varnish with extra dark rosin in it, with the oil filling the grain. It is such a dark color, it really darkened the stock quite a bit...more than I had anticipated actually...)

Staining with AF is one of the very few things I have been able to do with no real problems. The finished ratio is probably 6:1 water to acid, though frankly, I haven't ever been able to tell any difference when I used 3:1. I will apply the stain SEVERAL times, so acidity builds up anyway.

I have found that red maple will make a more brownish and darker color (generally) than sugar maple. AND, red maple, while showing curl more vividly while the wood is still white, will often have its curl become subdued after staining and finishing, whereas sugar maple figure will become even more brilliant.

Like I said, I will end up applying the stain several times (slop it on heavily). I have a hard time seeing imperfections in the wood surface while it is white, so after I stain it, I'll look it over and fix any areas that need it, and then stain again. Plus, when I only stain once, there always will be a greenish tone to the wood no matter how much you heat it. Apply and heat a couple times more, and the green will be gone for good. Adding more stain does not darken the color. You could stain it a dozen times and not have it any darker than it was when you stained it the third time.

By the way, and I don't know why, but after staining the wood about three times, it becomes very difficult to get anything to soak into the wood....it becomes durn near waterproof! Keep rubbing it in and it will eventually "break surface tension" and soak in.

When I'm satisfied with everything, I'll neutralize with a lye solution. Wash it off with water and let dry then finish. NO steel wool...heavens no. I just went through all that trouble and I'm sure not scrubbing all that stain off! :winking:

Now, that wasn't complicated was it? :grin:

I make my own AF stain. Not hard to do, but rather unpleasant! Some of the guys now are buying Ferric nitrate (which I believe is in a crystal form), mixing it up in water and using that. Ferric nitrate is the finished product after puttin the iron in the nitric acid. I haven't tried it yet, but others claim great success with it, just as with regular AF. I have enough nitric acid to last me quite a while, so that's what I use. I got it from Ky. Antec[url] www.kyantec.com[/url] I would imagine they would also have the ferric nitrate also...call and ask. Maybe this can be shipped without the ridiculously high hazardous materials charge.

 

[Bubba45]

What trouble did you have with steel wool?If you steel wool before applying nitric acid stain you get a bunch of nasty freckles but after application and heat treatment nothing happens. :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

What trouble did you have with steel wool?If you steel wool before applying nitric acid stain you get a bunch of nasty freckles but after application and heat treatment nothing happens. :thumbsup:

Well, nothing but rubbing all the color off! Especially the corners...man, if I get a piece of steel wool within twelve feet of a gunstock, the corners get knocked off and turn white instantly. I'm doing my best to wean myself completely from the use of steel wool. I'm finding different and more historical ways of doing things that give me the same or better results...and keep the corners sharp! I do still use steel wool on brass to quickly burnish it bright after filing, or to scrub varnish off of it or something, but that's about it. :winking:

 

The only thing steel wool's good for is in the making of A/F after you degrease it. Other wise it's about as useful as a chain saw in our kind of gun building.

Bill

 

[rich pierce]

That is the best plain spoken advice I've heard in a long while. I have NEVER been able to use steel wool w/o problems and always assumed I am doing something wrong. I was- it was trying to use steel wool as so many books advise.

 

[CrackStock]

Have any of you tried burlap to rub down a stock?

CS

 

[amplatz]

I was wondering about using leather to rub down a stock-anybody try that?

 

[Vaino]

After the AF and LMF stain have been applied, I rub down w/ 0000 stl wool to rid the stock of surface accumulation and this eliminates the "cloudiness". After 2 coats of LMF sealer has dried, 0000 stl wool rubs it down to bare wood. One addt'l coat of LMF sealer is hand rubbed in and when completely dry, 2 very thin coats of Wahkon Bay Trucoat are hand rubbed in for the final finish. The Trucoat eliminates the need to dull the gloss w/ pumice or oooo stl wool.....Fred

 

[Mike Yianopoulos]

Has anyone tried the procedure described in Foxfire Five? That is apply AF, carefully apply heat with a propane torch, rub down stock with boiled linseed oil/turpintine solution, reheat paying attention to nooks and crannies then rub down with 100% boiled linseed oil. I am at that point with my rifle where I'm ready to stain the stock and was wondering if this would produce good results. The stock is extra fancy maple and I want to bring out the grain. Thanks!

 

[Shelby Skinner]

I made some today using 3 cups water and 1 cup Nitric. Then I added some used horse shoe nails from my ferrier--maybe 10 total and let them dissolve. After about 3 hours the solution was done cooking and I set it in the wood pile with the lid slightly unscrewed to let any residual gas escape. In a few days I'll cap it tight. I won't use this stain for about a month. Lots of old timers say it tends to work a little better after its "aged" some. I shall see!

 

Shelby, don't cap it tight unless you've removed the nails. Especially if it's in a glass container. Even though it doesn't look like it's cooking it is, and the gass build up can cause it to rupture, or explode. also if you want to dilute it some, pour it into another container having the amount of water you want to add already in it. SAFETY FIRST

Bill

 

[Mike Yianopoulos]

Thanks for the info about aging the solution. Good to know! Aging the solution wasn't mentioned in Fox Fire. I've made some up using steel wool in place of nails, adding until it no longer disolves in the solution but have not applied it to the stock yet. Have you used the boiled linseed oil to finish? Should I look at some other means to finish and seal the stock?

 

[CrackStock]

I used a heat gun on the lower setting to blush the wood rather than a torch. Fire and wood just seemed like a bad idea to me.

CS

 

[Shelby Skinner]

Doesn't take much heat. The torch works fine since it turns color so quickly.

Bill, I appreciate your concern. But yes the cover is on very loosely and yes I know you always add acid to water. Not the other way around.

I've used BLO as a finish in the past and am not overly fond of it. Its not a particularly durable finish--especially on a hunting gun meant to be carried in foul weather etc. Of course its a finish that can be easily maintained and restored...

I prefer something like Tru-oil or Permalyn. Its easy to cut the shine off either finish but there's really no need. There is lots of evidence that many originals were finished with shiney boiled varnishes. But it seems that everyone nowadays wants a certain look regardless of how truely authentic it is. I personally feel we over-finish our guns today. They look too perfect in many respects. Satin smooth finishes and perfectly bright steel...