Aquafortis questions?

[50cal.cliff]

If this is the wrong place to post this, feel free to move it moderators!
I have been brewing up some Aquifortis from steel wool and vinegar. One container seems to have eaten all the steel wool.
The other about 75% reduction of the steel wool. I may have not gotten this one clean enough when I treated with Acetone and set afire to kill the oils.
So here are a few questions.

Do I need to do anything besides straining it when I pour it up?

When using it too stain leather is there anything to do besides applying it to get the desired result?

What is the best way to apply, brush, rag, or other method?

Do I need to do anything to neutralize after using it on leather?

AS for keeping it, I assume it needs to be kept in a mason jar that seals????

Any info you can share would be greatly appreciated!

 

[lonehunter]

Cliff, What you have is "vinagaroon" Aquafortice is made with Nitric acid and iron.

"Do I need to do anything besides straining it when I pour it up?"

I dont, I just strain and use as is.

"When using it too stain leather is there anything to do besides applying it to get the desired result?"

Nope, When you put it on you may get a grey color, Dont panic it will blacken as it dries.
Most of the time I give at least two coats.

"What is the best way to apply, brush, rag, or other method?"

Brush or rag will work just fine, I use a dauber.

"Do I need to do anything to neutralize after using it on leather?"

Some do, some dont. I use baking soda then oil after it dries.

"AS for keeping it, I assume it needs to be kept in a mason jar that seals????"

Metal lid will not last, It will rust thriough in short order.

I am sure Wick or Labonte can chime in and add more experience than myself. This is based on my limited use of it.
Hope it helps! :thumbsup:

 

[50cal.cliff]

:redface: Thanks Lonehunter I stand corrected. Well it is too late to go back and edit the title to read: Vinagaroon questions, sooooooo!!

Actually I kept thinking that was the wrong name, just attribute that to ole timers disease! you know CRS "Can't remember stuff"! Before someone gets the wrong idea! :haha:

 

[Elnathan]

Vinegaroon seems to be very unpredictable - everyone seems to have different experiences and I don't think that anyone has quite figured out how all the variables work together.

I finally got around to starting a batch myself a month or so ago - it doesn't seem to be doing much. Sometimes it takes three or four months for it to work properly, I believe.

 

[LRB]

The vinegaroon I have made is ready to use in a couple of weeks. By advice from LaBonte, I began using a pre wetting of strong tea, letting it almost dry, and adding a coat or 2 more. That adds tannens to the leather, and tannens is what reacts to the vinegaroon causing the leather to darken. I put the vinegaroon on heavy. multiple coats until it gets to where I want it. I have never had it not work, but leather varies in it's tannens I suppose, and sometimes it just takes perseverance to get it really black. Most often it works pretty fast.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

ff vinegaroon question.

I have a big iron pot that I plan to remove the large amount of inside rust from. If I do this with and onion & vinegar ....will the resulting liquid be a vinegaroon starter??

 

[Elnathan]

The vinegaroon I have made is ready to use in a couple of weeks. By advice from LaBonte, I began using a pre wetting of strong tea, letting it almost dry, and adding a coat or 2 more. That adds tannens to the leather, and tannens is what reacts to the vinegaroon causing the leather to darken. I put the vinegaroon on heavy. multiple coats until it gets to where I want it. I have never had it not work, but leather varies in it's tannens I suppose, and sometimes it just takes perseverance to get it really black. Most often it works pretty fast.

Which raises a new question - is the vinegaroon for leather or wood? I was thinking of a wood stain, but a leather stain might mature faster...


Off topic, but since you are here, Wick, I thought I'd mention that I finally got my forge repaired and hardened that O-1 knife I was talking to you about a month or two back. I tried straightening it after the quench but before it cooled properly, like you suggested, and it did in fact straighten very nicely. Unfortunately, it then warped again after I laid it aside to finish cooling, so I now get to try some of the other straightening techniques you suggested.

 

[LRB]

Do at least one temper cycle before doing any more, if you haven't already. Until the blade falls below about 450°, the steel is still in solution and as pliable as if red hot. Martensite formation begins at around 400°to 450°, and you can safely work with it until some where below 250°, or when you feel it getting ridged. I have straightened slight warps in 01 at almost room temp, but it is risky at that level.

 

[LRB]

As to the vinegaroon. I don't know if rust will help it or not, but I don't think it would harm it. The vinegar dissolves the iron and I'm not sure rust, iron oxide, would have the same effect. It may. That would a better question for Chuck to answer.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

As to the vinegaroon. I don't know if rust will help it or not, but I don't think it would harm it. The vinegar dissolves the iron and I'm not sure rust, iron oxide, would have the same effect. It may. That would a better question for Chuck to answer.

I think I will jar it up & try it on some scrap wood & leather in 2-3 weeks. :idunno: I will have it may as well try it (famous last words before the explosion ) :rotf:

 

[LaBonte]

Sean - using it with onion juice would be a no no since leather does not like sulphur (it can create irreversible damage) and since onions are full of sulphur...

As for use as a wood stain or leather stain - they are the same thing - the only real difference in making it up or usage is the use of rusty iron/steel for wood since it will impart a bit more red to the wood...

Been using this stuff for nigh onto 50 years - broken the rules (used unwashed steel wool), used old nails some galvanized, etc. and have never had the problems some folks seem to have whether on wood or leather - what Wick noted about the tea or other source of tannins (walnut dye, logwood, etc) is the best trick and then just make sure to re-condition the leather after "dying" - condition while it it's still damp and the conditioner will absorb better, especially when applied from the hair (smooth) side

 

[Sean Gadhar]

sulphur had not thought of that. Good save. Thanks

 

[Stophel]

I have complained recently about a leather bag I made and stained with vinegaroon and having it self destruct after several months. I looked at it again later, and noticed the pocket/divider piece that I had put in was still perfectly pliant and in good shape, while the rest of the bag: crack city. The bag itself, admittedly, was made of cheap "vegetable tanned" leather. The divider piece was a thinner piece of vegetable tanned leather that I had gotten many, many years ago, and is clearly much better quality leather. The moral of the story: Get the best leather you can find and test the stain on scraps first, and give ample time to see how it will affect the leather.

I am going to start using this stuff more on gunstocks, I think. I hate heating aqua fortis. No heat is required for vinegaroon. I am told that it is unnecessary to neutralize as well. I have only tested it on pieces of wood, and it makes a color within the normal range of color for aqua fortis. I'm not certain the color is quite as clear and bright as one gets with aqua fortis, but I have yet to give a real finish to my test pieces.

I have also learned that you shouldn't let your vinegaroon freeze! This insane cold incessant winter ruined my batch, had to pitch it out and start over. It made the wood turn a dark grayish color, rather than the orangy color it made before.

 

[50cal.cliff]

I have been real busy the last few days and haven't had a chance to check back on this thread. I appreciate all the advice on the vinagroon. I know I got the tittle all wrong and the funny part is my brain kept saying that ainn't right! Sometimes if pays to listen to that sixth sense!
You know I haven't checked my mix since we had this freeze. I honestly had not even thought about a freeze issue.
I started this batch with a batch of near boiling vinegar in one container. The second one I had to heat some more vinegar and it was not as hot. That may have made the difference in how it has been working.
I put in those plastic coffee grounds container and punched a hole in the lid. That was suggested by LaBonte on this or another site, (I can't remember)!
For the past few weeks every time I thought about it I would go by and stir it! Bringing any undigested steel wool up and stirring it in!
The temp of the initial vinegar may have something to do with the steel wool in the one container not being entirely eat up or it may be that steel wool did not get degreased as well as it should have.
Thanks for the tea tip I will have to try it. I also have some great rubber gasket material I may try a liner for the lid of the Mason jar to store it in so the fumes don't eat it up.
My biggest concern in that area was would it build gas/pressure and blow the jar?
Any way thanks again for the info about VINAGROON! By the way is it vinegroon or vinagroon I have seen it spelled both ways? :wink:

sulphur had not thought of that. Good save. Thanks

Sean I thought maybe you were starting a pot of stew or something! Onions and vinegar, my first thought was that stew was gonna have a wang to it with the vinegar. Honestly I never thought about sulfur either! :grin:

 

[Woodyrock]

Sean: To get the rust out of the kettle,(or anything else) use a solution of one cup Citric acid to a gallon of hot water. It is non poisonous, and converts rust quickly if warm. You can get it from wine making suppliers. They use it to sterilize bottles. Save it a a closed jug for use later, it keeps well.
Woody