Aquafortis

[ApprenticeBuilder]

So,

I am in the process of improving my chances at success with using the old ways of staining the rifle stock.

I have done some reaserch on the subject and have located several sources of both raw materials and what seems like ready to apply.

Many months back I purchased a bottle of the waukon bay solution figuring that I would have a simplified go at this process, upon further research I found this quote from a very accomplushed builder

Please be aware that if you buy Wahkon Bays aqua fortis you are really buying aqua regia and the results will not be the same.

In my searches I have found other information and so I have questions, here is another quote from a chemical supply company.

nitric acid (HNO3), also known as aqua fortis and spirit of nitre, is a highly corrosive and toxic strong mineral acid which is normally colorless but tends to acquire a yellow cast due to the accumulation of oxides of nitrogen if long-stored. Ordinary nitric acid has a concentration of 68%.

So if nitric acid is also known as aqua fortis does this imply that I need to do nothing further than purchase the acid and apply it to the stock wood, or does it require iron dissolved into solution to complete the process ?

I have located a chemical supply company that will ship either nitric acid, or ferric nitrate to my door.

 

[rich pierce]

Technically it is correct that nitric acid is aquafortis, but the aquafortis must be saturated with iron making ferric nitrate to stain the stock at all. Many are now using the ferric nitrate crystals with great success and avoiding the acid altogether. If you choose to make your own iron-saturated AQF, there are many recipes available. There has to be water present; the nitric acid and iron alone is not enough. I've made a half dozen batches and they all stain maple differently. The ferric nitrate crystals will probably give a more predictable and uniform result.

 

[Black Hand]

Aqua regia is a mixture of Nitric and Hydrochloric acids but IS NOT the same as aqua fortis (Nitric acid).

As we use the term in Muzzleloading, aqua fortis is nitric acid saturated with iron. Wahkon Bay works very well on maple.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I will stick with Wahkon Bay, Ferric Nitrate crystals or let somebody else home brew my Aqua Fortis stain just for safety. Unless you have a safe place to keep acids I don't recommend you keep them around.

I have had an accidental release of acid in an enclosed garage before, albeit Sulfuric. The acid had time to gas overnight and luckily I found it before I went to work that morning...oh, the smell and effect on the eyes, etc.

Everything within it's reach was corroded and it even affected some vinyl and rubber products as I have a yellow extension cord to this day that is brown.

That being said, I guess if you turn your whole supply of Nitric acid into stain as soon as you get it, it will be diluted/spent down to a safer level of acidity. Just be careful handling the stuff...please.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[tallbear]

Apprentice
Since I belive the quote above is mine let me try to help.

First in period inventories aqua fortis referred sometimes to both the acid and the acid with iron dissolved mixture that we use for staining.

Whakon Bays aqua fortis is acually aqua regia which is nitric acid,hydrocloric acid with iron dissolved into it.This mixture will certainly work just as well as aqua-fortis made with just nitric acid and iron dissolved into it.In my experments the Whakon bay mixture stains the wood darker than my mixtures on the same wood.This can be desirable depending on the results you are looking for.Whakon bays mixture also tends to be very acidic which means the stock will continue to darken unless you neutralize.Some builders like these results.Hershall House for instance really likes the dark color and wants his stocks to darken with time.He uses a very acidic stain and does not neutralize.

In my own work I have several mixes of aqua fortis and sometimes will use Wahkon Bays(aqua regia) depending on the results I am looking for.I make a teast piece useing a scrap of wood from my stock,compare the results and pic the one I like for that particular gun.

Glad to answer any other ?'s you might have.

Mitch

 

[bioprof]

Warning: if you decide to make your own aquafortis, make sure you do it outside or under a ventilation hood. When you add iron to a nitric acid/water mixture, it gives off deadly, toxic, orange fumes that will burn your skin and lungs.

 

[jdkerstetter]

...and please wear some kind of protective clothing and equipment.

J.D.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Ok,

This is starting to make sense now, shoulda probably paid a bit more attention during chemistry class.

What is the shelf life of the finished aqua-fortis ?

If an individual goes with the crystals can the shades be manipulated by varying the dilution of the liquid.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Upon further review and time spent doing some research I will probably end up with the ferric nitrate, alot less muss and fuss and the results should be the same.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

In my experments the Whakon bay mixture stains the wood darker than my mixtures on the same wood.

Ditto here

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

In my experments the Whakon bay mixture stains the wood darker than my mixtures on the same wood.

Ditto here

Were you guys using it straight from the bottle or did you tweak the solution a bit before the application ?

 

[Black Hand]

In my experments the Whakon bay mixture stains the wood darker than my mixtures on the same wood.

Ditto here

Were you guys using it straight from the bottle or did you tweak the solution a bit before the application ?

Some guys go straight from the bottle, others dilute some with distilled/rain water and apply multiple lighter coats with the heat-blush between coats. This appears to allow for a more controlled development of color.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I see,

Thanks.

I purchased a bottle quite awhile back and am gonna try it out on some scraps, also will contact chemical supply company today about the ferric nitrate.

In regards to the Waukon Bay product is it worthwhile to add more iron to the mix to see if the acid has been effectivly used up ?

 

[LaBonte]

In regards to the Waukon Bay product is it worthwhile to add more iron to the mix to see if the acid has been effectively used up ?

Yes it can help - just use all the cautions mentioned above.

some examples of various types:

The top piece is some some Wahkon Bay - it was the control since it is commonly available

on the bottom you have on the left:
Ferric Chloride aka vinegaroon aka vinegar with dissolved iron
in the middle is the Ferric Nitrate crystals mixed 3:1 distilled water to crystals
on the right is a batch of AF made using Birchwood-Casey Plum Brown which has nitric acid in it along with a couple of other. Added fine scraps of iron and it did work.

below are two pieces done with crystals, blushed neutralized (ammonia) and, finished with linseed oil based varnish

Note the standing face of the piece on the left - it was not blushed or neutralized and did darken in sunlight, of course I live at 7000' ASL and the sun is INTENSE....so yes even the crystals can turn dark.
On th other hand the chatoyance is fantastic - better than any other "stain" on maple I've used in 50+ years.
chatoyance: Some woods (with some finishes) offer different looks when struck by light at different angles. Call it shimmer, moire, chatoyance, or whatever

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Just love the colors of those test pieces, I found those very same pictures in multiple locations while searching out information on the processes last night and today.

Found my Waukon Bay (will add some more iron to it), ordered some ferric nitrate crystals today, am starting a couple different brews of vinegar tonight to see where it takes me.

I thank everybody that took the time to reply to this as it helped me to filter thru the bad information on the web.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Here are a couple pics of the Waukon Bay auqa-fortis after I added some rusty wire to it, hope that I can dilute it some and double the amount as it comes in a small bottle.

Found a reference to a book in a thread over at the ALR about 18th century stains and finishes, it seemed to be well recieved so I ordered it.

 

[tallbear]

Apprentice
Great experment.You are doing something I always wanted to try but never got around to.The bubbles you are getting mean that the acid is still working.When the bubbles stop for the most part you need to strain the mixture to remove leftover iron particles.I use a t shirt or cheese cloth.Please continue to update us on your progress.

As a side note i never got great results diluting Whakon bays solution so I think you may be on to something.

Whats the name of the book you ordered.Is it Bill Knights book ???

Mitch

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Apprentice, this rifle was stained with vinegar & iron. Came out a nice chocalate color, but with a slightly greenish (barely) cast. HC? Not so sure. Looks OK with a well brown set of furniture.
Probably won't use it again tho :v

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Thats an interesting color you have there, may be the picture angle but it just seems kinda bland, no sure, maybe the finish.

I will do alot of practicing before I apply anything to the actual blank as I will have at least 4 different concoctions to choose from or mix if thats what it takes.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Mitch,

It is the Bill Knight book that I found and have ordered it,

I kinda remember some discussions several years back at the ALR (before it moved) when seed-lac was the focus of the finish and am wondering if the information came from this book.

Anyway I'll know soon enough when the book arrives.