Aquafortis

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Here is what I had this morning when I went out and checked on my Waukon Bay aqua-fortis, little worried about the sludge content, strained it thru an old baby diaper into a jar with about 3/4oz of distilled water.

This afternoon it didn't look any better so I put it up on a shelf in the shop to see if things settle out a bit more.


Am seriously considering ordering some nitric acid so as to have one more possibility at colors, But will wait on my new book to do some more research before I commit.

 

[tallbear]

From the pic the only thing I would say is you added to many nails for the amount of liquid.I can tell that the wahkon bays was really acidic.Let the solids settle for a few days and pour off whats on top.Then try it on some wood :grin: :grin:

I'm not sure if the seedlac is in the Knight book it may be I havnt read it for a while.i got most of my finishing techniques from conversations with Eric Kettenberg.He had a lot of correspondence with Knight so that mat be where he got it from.

 

[necchi]

I guess I'm lucky enough to have met William Young that started the original Wakon Bay products.
(It's a town on the shores of Mille lacs lake here in MN)
To my knowledge he never used Hydrochloric acid, both of the products Aqua Fortis and the Browning Regent where both solutions of Nitric acid.
William was pretty tight with the recipie, he of course didn't want folks duplicating it.
He stopped just after 9-11 because of sudden increased regulations that drove the cost of nitric acid sky high.
He sold the brand to another feller a few years later, that was the "shortage" that happened years back.
I still have 4-2oz bottles of the original stuff, which is enough to do 2 long guns each. I just looked at the bottles that have been on a shelf in the closet for years, there is/was some sediment chunks floating aound on the bottom, that disapeared into the solution when shook.
But I don't remember any instructions to throw a handfull of nails in the stuff,
IRRC, there was something about an altered techique adding a few strands of steel wool to a jar, something about adding the iron molecules into the woodgrain for color,,

 

[LaBonte]

William Young posted his full and original formula for his brand of AF on the ALR forum sometime back and it included hydrochloric acid. The current owner/manufacturer of Wahkon AF is Mike Lea and every batch (3)I bought of the new IMO needs more iron.

 

[tallbear]

Necci
I have corresponded with William Young personally and hydrocloric acid has always been an ingredient of Whakon Bays aqua fortis,

Mitch

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

As it stands,

The solids are beginning to settle out of the solution, cannot wait to try it out on some scraps.

I bought the Waukon Bay solution to finish a blank that I started in about '08, as the project progressed there were many architectual issues that forced me away from the build and onto other things while I figured a way around the issues, the wife is tired of shooting her rifle in the white and wants it finished, hence the quick study.

I am at a place with her project where I am about to start the carving on her platypus rifle.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I am not in a position to offer any educated response as I have never seen the recipie, but I have read some 50 or 60 threads regarding this stuff and the consensus of those that have worked extensivly with it recommend the approach I am using.

Not sure what to add at this point untill I can actually apply it to some wood.

The upside is this, if I do make a mess of this solution it is an easy enough thing to order some more.

:wink:

 

A couple of tips that might help. Instead of a bunch of metal in the jug, only add one piece at a time, and as it's used up add another. This will tell you when you have used up the acid. Second, when filtering out the sludge, try coffee filters. They will get rid of most of the particulate. In thirty years of using it , and vinegaroon, I have leaned toward a more dilute solution. I now just use the Ferric Cloride in a 7 or 8 to 1 ratio. So I have to do two or three app's to get the color I want, and more control. And my standard warning to all who are using it for the first time. Do a sample, and don't have a heart attack when your first application turns a sickly grey green color, as you have to blush it to finish. It's really neat watching the color change. Good luck

Bill

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Hey Bill,

I'll tell ya, when that first piece of wire went into the solution and I seen the bubbles start to rise I just kinda lost myself in the moment, it was at that point that I realized that the oppurtunity to view the "dragons breath" far out weighed common sense, couldn't help myself.

I tried the coffee filter this morning and it seems to have pulled a considerable amount of solids out of solution, still looks like rusty water though. Thanks for that tip.

I also am still getting a small amount of bubbles on the surface, kinda like 'bubble bath'

Would you be willing to give a bit more information on the ferric cloride and maybe a pic or a few of what the finished product looks like.

Thanks

 

This is three app's of Ferric Chloride mixed 7:1 with tap water. Tung Oil finish, hand forged mounts, .60 cal. oct/rnd smooth rifle. The Ferric Chloride can also be used as a browning solution. It is important to keep the crystals, and solution sealed unless you want all the tools in your shop to rust/brown from vapors. Left a baby food jar (my beaker) with the lid off overnight, and in a couple of days, I had a lot of tools starting to brown.

Bill

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Bill,

Thats a dandy looking piece you have there, teasing us with so few pictures such as you have. I must admit that I do like the color of the wood as well, will have to look into the ferric cloride and add it to the possibilities for a wood color.

Do you have anymore pics of that fine firearm ?

Thanks again for sharing

 

[jdkerstetter]

This has turned out to be a great thread.

Tom, I think you are on the right track in having several AF mixtures to try because....as I understand it....unless I've over looked it, one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that each individual piece of maple will react differently to AF.

Having several recipes to choose from, as Mitch does, only increases your chances of getting the desired color for your build.

That being said, taking scrap maple and making up color samples pieces won't really mean anything when it comes to applying it to a given stock. Mixes will have to be tried on that inividual piece of wood.

Samples pieces will tell you if a mix "works" but won't tell you exactly what color you will get on any given piece.

Is that the way others here understand this?

Enjoy, J.D.

 

A/B, here's some more pic's just for you

Hope it's to your liking.
JD, the strength of the solution will vary the darkness of the first coat, but the different versions of A/f, that are just Nitric Acid, and iron, or the Ferric Nitrate crystals will give you the same color, on the same piece of wood, the Aqua Regia, will be slightly different because of the HCL added. I prefer to use slightly diluted formula, and work up to the color I want, rather than one application, and working it back by sanding or scrapping. This stuff is a chemical reaction into the wood, and not a tint, or stain on the wood. PS sold this to a guy from Texas, at the CLA show, that wanted a stealthy gun for Hogs, and Turkeys.

Bill

 

[LaBonte]

Bill - very nicely done!

A question though - above you mentioned using ferric chloride now ferric nitrate???
I assume the ferric chloride was a mis-type since I've never heard of anyone using anything but ferric nitrate on wood, whether it be the commercial crystals or the home made AF i.e. iron dissolved in nitric acid = ferric nitrate.
Ferric chloride (iron dissolved in chlorine) on the other hand is often used by knife makers for etching blades????

 

[jdkerstetter]

This stuff is a chemical reaction into the wood, and not a tint, or stain on the wood.

Yes, that is what I was driving at. Since it reacts with the wood rather than staining it, you should expect different results on each idividual piece of wood as each piece has it's own properties.

Interesting you got the same colors, on the same wood, regardless whether it was the crystals or the home made brews of AF. That's good to know. I will stick with the crystals and Wahkon Bay and avoid playing with the acid.

Very nice smooth rifle there. That Texan should be proud....but aren't they all. :wink:

Emjoy, J.D.

 

Yeah Chuck, I meant Ferric Nitrate, not Chloride. It was a brain Fart. For those interested here's some patina formula's on the Site that sells Ferric Nitrate. http://www.sciencecompany.com/-W160.aspx

Bill

 

[jdkerstetter]

Bill, Have you tried any of these on brass? I've been tempted but haven't gotten around to it.

Thanks, J.D.

 

[LaBonte]

JD - I've used several of those on brass/copper/bronze and most work fine, but one of the easiest and IMO the best I've used for brass and the other copper based materials is a mix of Birchwood-Casey's SUPER Blue and muriatic acid sometimes diluted with alcohol - start with about 1 part BC SB and 3-4 parts MA - dilute as needed. Apply and let dry for a few hours to let it set. Then neutralize with ammonia and rub clean with an oil rag. Some times multiple applications are necessary to get it right and most times I rub back with either a scrub pad and/or steel wool and then re-apply as needed, but I get the best "aged" look with the mix than anything I've used in the last 45+ years crafting.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Thanks for sharing.:hatsoff:

I'll have to add that one to my list to try.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[bioprof]

Yeah Chuck, I meant Ferric Nitrate, not Chloride. It was a brain Fart. For those interested here's some patina formula's on the Site that sells Ferric Nitrate. http://www.sciencecompany.com/-W160.aspx

Bill

I've tried Ferric Chloride and it doesn't work. It didn't color the wood.