Are smaller calibers more accurate?

Thanks for the warm welcome! I am really enjoying reading all the informative posts here. I ordered a Traditions Pennsylvania longrifle from Northern Rifleman and it shipped today so it should be here in a couple of weeks. I can hardly wait to take my first shot on the range!

 

Not to be a smart A$$, but the 45's acceleration will be quicker than the 50's due to the weight of the projectile. Although the 45 will initially be travelling faster, due in most part to wind drag the lighter 45 will lose it's poop quicker than the heavier 50.

Here's something to ponder. A 2,200 pound projectile fired from a 16 inch breech loaded gun utilizing Black Powder on an Iowa class battleship can accurately engage a target at a range of approximately 22 miles with consistant accuracy!

 

[shmrck1]

Dawg,
I don't know all the ins and outs about
ballistics on blackpowder....but I do know this,
I have a .32-.36-.45-.50 and a .54. Out to 50
yards I shoot the .45 best by far. I don't know
if the reason is the GM barrel, the Cal. or
simply my confidence, but the .45 is my choice
for most accuate at least to 50 yards. I am
a hunter not a target shooter and 50yards is
about the max. shot in the areas I hunt,usually
less than that. I have taken deer with the .45,
.50 and the .54. These our just my personnal
thoughts and Newton did not have a thing to
do with them.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Many a CW soldier lost a foot or leg sticking it out to stop a slow bouncing solid cannon ball.

 

[rudy parnell]

It seems like I'm the only one in this formation Are you serious? Seems like the word would have been passed around on that out come...uh...no pun intended. :hmm:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Nope, no joke, ignorance compounded by stupidity is a deadly combination. Troops would be often well back behind the lines and see a over shot cannon ball just slowly (it seemed) skipping along the ground. Some thought it would be easy to stop, to their regret it wasn't, as it went merrily skipping on, after lopping off a foot or leg.

Record of a English soldier at Waterloo doing same thing and losing a foot.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

In a vacume all projectiles will act identical. Now lets get to the real world. the mass of the object plus any force will make this change. The fact that Newton dicovered the theory of motion does not mean that objects fall to his name.

Acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 meters per second^2 that means you would multiply the seconds by themselves and then mutiply that by 9.8.

so for example you drop something and it falls for 4 seconds at that moment it is falling at 4X4X9.8 meters per second. This again is in a vacume because wind resistance or specific gravity of whatever medium you are dropping the object though will change everything.

BTW that object we dropped is taveling after only 4 seconds 156.8 meters per second. After 5 seconds it is taveling 245 meters per second.

In the real world we have ballistic coeffient drag and humitity and the density of the air due to elevation.

So my conclusion is at short ranges smaller is better but longer range shots require a bigger projectile.

 

Guess that sort of explains why that one ton projectile fired from a 16 inch gun propelled with black powder can travel a little over 20 miles.

 

[jtmattison]

How did we get started on talking physics?

Here's my original post:

I have read in a few places that smaller caliber muzzleloaders are generally more accurate than larger calibers.
All things equal, generally speaking, does anyone agree with this?
Is a .32 1:60 twist roundball gun more accurate than a .54 1:60 twist roundball gun?
Does anyone have any evidence supporting this theory?

Anyone care to go back to this?

HD

 

[roundball]

How did we get started on talking physics?

Here's my original post:

I have read in a few places that smaller caliber muzzleloaders are generally more accurate than larger calibers.
All things equal, generally speaking, does anyone agree with this?
Is a .32 1:60 twist roundball gun more accurate than a .54 1:60 twist roundball gun?
Does anyone have any evidence supporting this theory?

Anyone care to go back to this?

HD

I will...IMO, I think the .45cal is an inherently accurate caliber for the sake of caliber.
:winking:

 

[bnail]

How did we get started on talking physics?

Here's my original post:

I have read in a few places that smaller caliber muzzleloaders are generally more accurate than larger calibers.
All things equal, generally speaking, does anyone agree with this?
Is a .32 1:60 twist roundball gun more accurate than a .54 1:60 twist roundball gun?
Does anyone have any evidence supporting this theory?

Anyone care to go back to this?

HD

HD, I don't think folks got away from you original question. all things being equal, Physics would most certainly apply, and I think Pittsburghunter answered it the best.
However, here's MTC. Since we're not in a vacuum, I'd say that inertia would have a lot to do the accuracy of the projectile. the whole "an object in motion tends to stay in motion. . . " thing. I'd vote for the .54 (all things being equal otherwise) as, IMO, it would take more force to overcome the inertia of the ball with the greatest mass. (the canonball analogy)

 

[Runner]

Small bores are more sensitive to things like powder, patching, fouling, and even cap strength. Large bores often don't even change point of aim much at 50 yards with a five grain powder change, changing lubes, patching, or changing caps.

Outside in the real world with a breeze blowing, the 54 will eat the 36 for lunch on the target range simply because it bucks the wind better and more predictably. In a tunnel or on a still day, the 36 will hold it's own.

In the hunting fields, the 54 is better across the board for everything after you get past jack rabbits or foxes, and it can be loaded down for them too. The 36 is better for small game, but illegal for most larger game virtually everywhere.

At the range, the 54 thumps those knockdown plates right on over. The 36 has problems a lot of the time past 50 yards on the bigger plates.

The 36, a can of powder, and five pounds of 000 buck is a lot of shooting for little money. The 54 costs about five times as much to shoot with average loads.

The 36 doesn't kick. The 54 depends on build and load on how much it does.

In the the end, you need one of both! The 36 is a nice economical range gun for practice and is great for squirrels and such. The 54 does everything else, including winning the match at the local club!

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Even in the real world I would say the smaller projectile is better for ranges 50yds or less and hazard a guess that the .50cal would be best for effective m/l ranges due to the range of specialized bullets and sabots made for it. If we are talking old school rifles the .50 was the little runt cousin till rifling came along so bigger calibers got the best projectiles.

IMHO I would check and see what cal is used by most competitive shooters and see if they used large or small in their sport. I also would check to see what ranges they shoot the rifles at.

 

[Zonie]

...Is a .32 1:60 twist roundball gun more accurate than a .54 1:60 twist roundball gun?...

HD

I would vote for the .54.
the 1:60 twist is just about right for the .54 caliber gun but it is not the best for the .32 caliber gun.

The smaller bore guns like faster twists which explains why companies like Green Mountain, Colerain, Getz and LongHammock use a 1:48 twist for the .32 caliber roundball.

Now that that issue has been addressed, I feel that if the distance we are speaking of is beyond 25 yards on a clear, windless day the two will be a very even match.
If there is any wind at all, and especially if it is gusting the .54 will be more accurate because it will be affected less by the wind.
(Simply put: the greater mass of the .54 will resist deflection of the wind better. Not so simply put the Ballistic Coefficient is .043 for the .32 and .070 for the .54).

 

[pmwest]

At the risk of causing a stir, I am going to pass on the opinion that size of projectile is not a factor in the equation of accuracy. If all other elements of gun design, projectile selection for that design and powder charge balance, are optimized, the caliber of the gun is just not a factor. So much for opinion”¦If you look historically at the types of rifles used at the pinnacle of muzzleloading rifle use in America as chronicled by Ned Roberts, a most accurate rifle in 1835 that would be used for match shooting and hunting would have the following characteristics: Heavy full octagon barrel 30 to 36” long that fired a flat point picket bullet with linen patch with a “turned” muzzle (similar to T/C’s QLA?), usually 36, 38, 40 or 42 caliber, rifled with “gain twist”, double set triggers, percussion ignition, fine pin headed front sight with shade and tang mounted rear peep, total gun weight would average between 9 and 15 pounds.

 

[Zonie]

WildShot: What you say is correct but the way I read the initial question it was directed at roundballs, not elongated slugs.
What are your thoughts for spherical projectiles?

 

[pmwest]

You are correct in that my post only addressed the issue of the general question regarding accuracy and its relationship to caliber supported by historical evidence. It would seem that the picket style bullet with linen patch was a step in evolution to achieve the optimum in longer-range accuracy than could be achieved with the round ball. The next step up in the process was the Clark Patent Muzzle that was designed to minimize the problems of bullet/bore alignment during loading.

Addressing the issue of accuracy with round ball with regard to rate of twist, all things are not equal. Again with historical reference, better rate of twist for .32 would be in the range of 1:38, with the .54 the ideal rate would be around 1:72. With that said, there would be evidence to support the use of a gain twist to achieve the optimum accuracy in any caliber using the patched round ball.

OK, you asked for personal opinion so here it is. How do I feel about round balls? I love them! Shoot them often in .36, .45, .50 and 12 gauge flavors, from rifle, smoothbore and revolver. Might also say that my favorite form might be a whole hand full dropped down the bore of a single barrel sidelock 12 gauge, within 35 yards they are deadly accurate. :grin: