Are Some BP Revolvers Just Not Reasonably Accurate?

[M. De Land]

My basis of feeling for what I want is a 4 inch group at 25 yards. Kind of traditional test distance when I was doing my early pistol shooting and usually if they have any integrity, that is what they test at now as well (I have seen em cheat with shorter distances and it is, if it can't go any better than that its a loss). I saw an uber expensive gussied up 1911 and they were getting 2.5 inches at 25 yards and raving at the accuracy. Hmm, gun magazine, bought off, I expect the lowest cost gun out of the box to do that.

I am going to have to do the discipline thing and just test the ASP NMA at 15 feet and see what the pattern is. Same with the Pietta. I had target out at 45 feet Sunday and the ROA and the 47 Walker out and was getting sub 4 inch groups at that distance.

I tried the Pietta NMA again Sunday and the shots were all over the place, pretty sure a couple hit the target frame 24 inch wide or missed entirely.

Both those guns have the same twist and erratic shooting from both. I have tried .457/.454 and .451 balls (and a round of JD conical).

The ASP I will keep for its sentimental value. The Pietta NMA (target) I may just sell (I have spare cylinders with it). It just does not seem like either one is worth shooting much. Waste of powder and worse caps.

Here are some 5 shot Walker loads with ball and bullets at 25 yards. Aiming point was bottom of green circle on all groups.
This was right out of the box with a trigger job and arbor end fit.
I'm going to cut a dovetail and fit a new front blade along with a loading rod catch up front.
This was shot from a sand bag rest and bench.

 

[Paul Marcone]

I got this level of accuracy with my Uberti Colt Walker - standing at 25 yards. This was a while back but you can get reasonable accuracy with reproduction black powder revolvers …

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

I have had luck with 25 grain in .44 and 15 in .36 my accuracy seems OK. I use a lubed wad over powder. My question is does anyone actually use filler . Cream o wheat etc. I don't have any plans to try. Just wondering if it really makes a deference bringing the ball up closer to forcing cone.

 

[45D]

Well, here's the first 5 shots from the first 45acp '60 with a new ( '72 Open Top) front sight. 230gr 45acp 21K psi ( just last week). The sight worked out perfect with both '60's.

2" center to center, 10 yds, off hand.

Mike

 

[kh54]

Coincidentally, I just took my new (to me) and fired only once before Uberti 1861 Navy to the range today to check the accuracy. First cylinder at urban combat distance (is that a term?) of about 7 yards with a bench rest gave one ragged hole at POA. My indoor pistol range is only about 18 yards deep but I next ran the target out all the way and shot another 6 rounds and another ragged hole. I was using 20 grains 3f Schuetzen and .375 hand cast ball. I wish now I had taken pictures. Accuracy fell off with greater fouling but after 36 rounds I still had a 3-4 inch group.

So to answer the question in the thread title I would have to ask, “Are some BP revolvers just real accurate?” Mine appears to be more accurate than I am at least without that bench rest.

 

[Smokerr]

Well, here's the first 5 shots from the first 45acp '60 with a new ( '72 Open Top) front sight. 230gr 45acp 21K psi ( just last week). The sight worked out perfect with both '60's.

Mike: I am puzzled in regards to 45 ACP vs 45 Black Powder revolver.

No idea what an 45 ACP 60 is.

1972 Open Top?

 

[Smokerr]

To repeat, clearly Black Powder Revolvers can be accurate.

The question is, if they are really not, then will tuning make them accurate or better but better still being scattered?

Neither the ASP or the Pietta NMA show any promise in that regard, they would have to be shot at 25 feet to be on the target.

The ROA and the 47 Walker do.

 

[45D]

Mike: I am puzzled in regards to 45 ACP vs 45 Black Powder revolver.

No idea what an 45 ACP 60 is.

1972 Open Top?

I have 2 '60 Armys (U) with 45acp Kirst conversions installed. The original front sights were too short so I replaced them with 1872 Open Top sights which are somewhat taller.
Here's a comparison:

Mike

 

[nick_1]

not sure that 7yrd bench rests tell much of a story.....

 

[hawkeye2]

not sure that 7yrd bench rests tell much of a story.....

If I had a .38 special with small grips and a 2" barrel 7 yards would tell me all I need to know but even then I wouldn't accept a group larger than 3".

The closest distance in an N-SSA match is 25 yards and that's also a realistic hunting distance so I call that the minimum distance to try for a group. Disclaimer; if I were shooting an unknown gun and load I might try it at half that distance to assure I could get on a target at 25 (POA vs POI).

 

[nick_1]

If i cant find paper I might start at 15 or 20 yrds. If I have a really nice 7yrd bill drill target however that probably says more about the grips/ergonomics and my skill than anything to do with static/ bench accuracy.. if I had a .38sp with small grips I would put bigger grips on it. the grips on a pistol are every bit as important as the stock on a trap or skeet gun.

 

[Splitear]

When I miss, it’s always the guns fault.

 

[smokeum54]

I have had luck with 25 grain in .44 and 15 in .36 my accuracy seems OK. I use a lubed wad over powder. My question is does anyone actually use filler . Cream o wheat etc. I don't have any plans to try. Just wondering if it really makes a deference bringing the ball up closer to forcing cone.

I use cream of wheat as a filler. I have a few revolvers that definitely shoot tighter groups with less jump to the cone.

I've also found, in my experience, that it helps scrub the bore. I don't use lube with round ball.

 

[45D]

I think if YOU think it helps . . . then, it helps. Another thing, cap guns don't have "jump" unless you're talking about a HUGE endshake of .012" or more, where the small bearing surface of a ball may lose contact going from chamber and thru the forcing cone. Otherwise, the ball / bullet fits the chamber at loading so, there would be nothing to jump.

I figured that out long ago. I had a '72 OT in 44 sp which also shot 44 Colt as well as 44 Russian. The most accurate round out of that revolver was the short 44 Russian round which had actual "jump" in the chamber!!!

Mike

 

[nick_1]

I think the only reason you need filler is if uor loader is too short for the light load to compress the charge. i load off the gun so its a non issue for me.

 

[Bad Karma]

He is dealing with chemo.

Damn… sorry to hear that. cancer sucks and the treatments aren’t a lot better.

“I have 2 '60 Armys (U) with 45acp Kirst conversions installed. The original front sights were too short so I replaced them with 1872 Open Top sights which are somewhat taller.”

@45D the first thing I do with any promising 1860/61 is replace the front sight with the open top sight. It’s usually pretty close immediately. If the revolver is promising it goes away pretty quickly unless there are obvious deficiencies readily corrected. Only accurate guns are interesting…

 

[Ed C.]

He is dealing with chemo.

Sorry to hear that. I did get to contact him by phone and he now has my cylinder for reaming.

 

[Blackpowderart]

Some may be. But some can be very accurate. The chamber size being smaller than the bore will kill accuracy for sure. Wads will sometimes stick to the ball and cause flyers. Sometimes a revolver likes a different or certain powder size, so one has to try 4fg, 3fg, and 2fg. Good luck!!
View attachment 303100
View attachment 303102

Pocket police with an army sight....where does one get these powers?

 

[Bad Karma]

Pocket police with an army sight....where does one get these powers?

”Don’t be obtuse Jeffrey…”

Ooops! Sorry Art, I thought you were another fellow…

 

[Smokerr]

not sure that 7yrd bench rests tell much of a story.....

If a gun shoots so randomly that you are not even hitting the target, then you bring it in close, see what its pattern is and what the bias is. You can then move it out and use a non centered aim point.

You then have an idea as to how far it can even hit the target. The two NMA are poor. I can shoot the ROA and the 47 Walker at 25 yards and get an on paper group (hand rested)

You get older and free standing is not a real option as you can't hold it like you (or I) could.

Guns have been tested rested and in fixtures forever, you can't determine what the accuracy of a gun is unless you do.