Are we doing a disservice to new flint shooters?

[S.Kenton]

I’m still struggling with flinching, I almost had myself broke of it, it havnt picked up my flinter since we’ve moved. I feel the heat but don’t really notice the flash in the pan as much... I’m all over the target with a flintlock. Now caplocks however , I’m dead on.
I’ll return to shooting my flintlocks later this spring, I just put in a sidewalk and wife wants a back porch with all the fluff, that will take some time to do.

 

[shane a gress]

I don't flinch and usually see the flash, shoot with both eyes open. I do find that on occasion that anticipate the shot while squeezing the trigger. Next shot I relax and let it just happen.

 

[45man]

I won every shoot with a flint lock. I brought home $60 worth of groceries all the time. Once you can control a flinter, you can shoot anything. I taught my daughter and she would break a bottle at 75 yards off hand. She went on to join the Marines and out shot everyone with the highest score ever shot.
Now I have many shooters come here and with modern revolvers I start them with a huge caliber like the .475 or .500 JRH until they can hit with comfort and lose fear, then I take them down to the lowly .44 mag and they do great. One friends son looked with wide eyes at my huge revolver until I showed it could be shot with one hand. He finally took it and loved it. Then he took his dads .454 and busted water bottles at 100 yards off hand. I work backwards to remove recoil fear first before going to a .22 or .357. Yes I am kind of crazy but it works. A few years ago I could hit a water bottle at 100 off hand with the .475 and .500 and have shot 3/4" groups at 100 with the .44 but I got old and shaky. At near 82 years old all I have are memories. I remember shooting rocks at 600 + yards with a .44 off hand. I could take 50 meter chickens down at 200 meters with my Hawken. I won almost every IHMSA shoot and Ohio state with my .44 SBH. 79 out of 80 because I shook at the last shot.
Another tip for you, keep breathing as you acquire the target or your eyes go bad from a lack of oxygen. Then and only then as the sear breaks do you hold your breath. I was used to shooting chucks to near 700 yards before joining the army and won the company trophy with my M1 on the 500 yard KD range with one shot out of the X ring. Here is a group at 100 off hand with a SBH .44.

 

[45man]

I can account for about 250 deer kills in Ohio, MI and PA with my flint lock. I am close to 600 deer kills since I had unlimited tags for damage control. All meat was given to feed the poor. I had farms and orchards from lake Erie to the river to hunt. My archery kills can't be believed.

 

[Juice Jaws]

I've been wondering about this for quite a while. Everytime I see folks posting shooting advice to new flintlock shooters.

It seems the 1st thing everyone starts going on about is ignoring the pan flash and all the ways to go about not letting it effect the shooter. So, in essence, the 1st thing everyone makes a big fuss about is the #1 thing we don't want the shooter to notice or think about. Before they've even had an issue with it. This doesn't make sense to me.

There are a lot of good marksmanship reasons to focus on the front sight and to follow through at the shot. A lot of good reasons to dry fire practice. Do we really need to make a fuss about the flash and put it in the shooter's head?

I think we make too much out of the flash in the pan. I never see it and it has never bother me. I am left handed and shoot right handed flintlocks, the main thing new shooters did to learn is a good follow through.

 

[Griz44Mag]

My archery kills can't be believed.

Other than being WAY off topic, this is one statement that I did believe.......

 

[AlanG]

Now I have many shooters come here and with modern revolvers I start them with a huge caliber like the .475 or .500 JRH

Wow- that has ruined more shooters, and turned more people away from shooting (esp. women and kids) than anything I know of. But I never shot a woodchuck at 700 yards either!

More on topic- I guess I haven't really witnessed your initial pan flash fear premise that much.

One area where I DO think is a disservice to the flintlock and new shooters is why someone, particularly the NMLRA hasn't put out a basic pamphlet for the flintlock. Proper pictures/methods of installing a flint in the jaw, flint orient/shimming, and especially a couple of methods to knap a sharp edge would eliminate 99% of all problems beginners have starting out with the flintlock.

 

[Rifleman1776]

One area where I DO think is a disservice to the flintlock and new shooters is why someone, particularly the NMLRA hasn't put out a basic pamphlet for the flintlock.

Because a small group of influential people, mostly who live fairly near Friendship, are vigorously pushing the association towards inlines and modern firearms.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Because a small group of influential people, mostly who live fairly near Friendship, are vigorously pushing the association towards inlines and modern firearms.

That is a real travesty.... Almost heresy.

 

[flntlokr]

As many have said, the flash happens, but goes unnoticed. If you are looking down the sights, you shouldn't see it. If you are looking for it, you will. I always let new shooter poof off a couple of times with priming powder, but without loading, so they get used to the set triggers, and get past issues with flash. I have never had a new shooter express any concern with the priming flash.

 

[AlanG]

Because a small group of influential people, mostly who live fairly near Friendship, are vigorously pushing the association towards inlines and modern firearms.

I let my membership lax last year, and I haven't been to Friendship in 30 years, but I got the feeling that they were just trying to keep the organization afloat because of the ageing out of members. I certainly can say that every "muzzleloader" shooter I have met in the last 5+ years thinks a ML rifle is an inline. But they are also genuinely interested in seeing and having me let them shoot a flintlock for the first time, and I suspect some will become true believers if you will.

 

[19 16 6]

Hello Brokennock. I found your question to be very interesting & pertinent to where we are in this world today.
We live in a culture of fear. I believe caused by turning our eyes from Jesus & onto the world. A cult (culture) that worships fear & calls it safety.

I go out into my back yard the other day & the 3 year old girl next door is climbing on the swing set. She looks over & calls out Hey!, Hey!, I fall down.
Do you see that this has been implanted into her head by helicopter parents who, by the way are both school teachers & therefore priests in the cult of fear. If they were to come out & see her climbing on the swing their immediate reaction is fear in the guise of safety & they say to her be careful because you will fall down. She then believes this because it is all she gets trained with.
Now, what I said to her was, you will not fall down, you are a good climber who does not fall down. See the difference.
Way one is to approach from fear & trepidation with negativity to the outcome. Way two is to approach bravely with confidence in ones self & ability & a positive thinking toward the outcome.

If Lewis & Clark had been raised by parents like these they never would have left St Louis for fear of a negative outcome or falling down.

In life it is the same thing as in shooting a flintlock, If we concentrate on the flash in the pan & fear it we do not hit our target.
If we concentrate on the front sight on the target & have no fear of the flash in the pan we then hit the target.
There are many scary looking flashes in the pan throughout our daily lives, just have a look at where the people who concentrate on them are in life, never hitting their targets. It is the work of their enemy telling them that they are safe while shackled.

The people telling new shooters to be careful of the flash just do not know what it is that they do because this has all become so culturally normal. You are the odd one out to have noticed that tum ting is wong here & he is not Chinese.

O.

 

[Brokennock]

Hello Brokennock. I found your question to be very interesting & pertinent to where we are in this world today.
We live in a culture of fear. I believe caused by turning our eyes from Jesus & onto the world. A cult (culture) that worships fear & calls it safety.

I go out into my back yard the other day & the 3 year old girl next door is climbing on the swing set. She looks over & calls out Hey!, Hey!, I fall down.
Do you see that this has been implanted into her head by helicopter parents who, by the way are both school teachers & therefore priests in the cult of fear. If they were to come out & see her climbing on the swing their immediate reaction is fear in the guise of safety & they say to her be careful because you will fall down. She then believes this because it is all she gets trained with.
Now, what I said to her was, you will not fall down, you are a good climber who does not fall down. See the difference.
Way one is to approach from fear & trepidation with negativity to the outcome. Way two is to approach bravely with confidence in ones self & ability & a positive thinking toward the outcome.

If Lewis & Clark had been raised by parents like these they never would have left St Louis for fear of a negative outcome or falling down.

In life it is the same thing as in shooting a flintlock, If we concentrate on the flash in the pan & fear it we do not hit our target.
If we concentrate on the front sight on the target & have no fear of the flash in the pan we then hit the target.
There are many scary looking flashes in the pan throughout our daily lives, just have a look at where the people who concentrate on them are in life, never hitting their targets. It is the work of their enemy telling them that they are safe while shackled.

The people telling new shooters to be careful of the flash just do not know what it is that they do because this has all become so culturally normal. You are the odd one out to have noticed that tum ting is wong here & he is not Chinese.

O.

Much truth there. As a society we set people up to fail and to be victims, victims huddled in fear can be controlled.

On a smaller more on topic scale, my main point wasn't if people do or will see the flash, it is that we set people up to think about it when we tell them to concentrate on the sights and ignore the flash. I think we would be better served to concentrate on the fundamentals, sight alignment, focus on the front sight, trigger squeeze resulting in the surprise break (the positives that give us confidence), and not mention the flash and/or that focusing on the sight draws the shooter's attention from the flash (the negative approach that instills worry and fear, before anything has happened yet).
If they comment on it afterward, ask if they are injured by it, when they state they are not, tell them to continue focusing on the fundamentals, if they seem to be flinching, commence more dry fire.

 

[FishDFly]

The "Readers Digest" answer to the OP's question, "Yes".

 

[45man]

Wow- that has ruined more shooters, and turned more people away from shooting (esp. women and kids) than anything I know of. But I never shot a woodchuck at 700 yards either!

More on topic- I guess I haven't really witnessed your initial pan flash fear premise that much.

One area where I DO think is a disservice to the flintlock and new shooters is why someone, particularly the NMLRA hasn't put out a basic pamphlet for the flintlock. Proper pictures/methods of installing a flint in the jaw, flint orient/shimming, and especially a couple of methods to knap a sharp edge would eliminate 99% of all problems beginners have starting out with the flintlock.

A flint lock will fire before you will flinch if set up proper.
But I say remove fear of recoil first will make a better shooter. Ladies here shoot large guns better then men do.

 

[Howie1968]

Im a somewhat newbie to flintlocks been shooting mine since October, I never notice the flash unless I don't prime it right then I get a pssst boom then I notice. also one time while hunting hogs at night from my ground blind I did notice the flash other than that I don't recall

 

[45man]

Other than being WAY off topic, this is one statement that I did believe.......

Yes, once you get good with a bow, the muzzle loader is so easy. Just a wonderful hunting gun. Ohio had a shotgun only rule but allowed a muzzle loader and it was my choice. I did get many deer with a shotgun but the flint lock was better. You learn to appreciate the old guns. I loved the late season in PA since there was almost always snow to track deer. I prayed for snow in Ohio but mostly it never came during season. I learned so much tracking deer that I never failed. I will tell you to walk in tracks because they circle and you will lose the fresh ones. The herd went past my truck 7 times before I caught up. They are just like a rabbit.
One time there were a bunch up the hill from me hunting rabbits with beagles. I took my shotgun and asked to join in. I killed every rabbit and they were pissed at me. I knew where the rabbit was going and got there. I gave them all of them so they were happy. Same with deer. You get to learn them.
Another tip if you track deer in snow. If they go over a hill, get down and crawl off to the side because they will be down there watching the back track. And then with other hunters in the woods and you track to an open spot, stop and stand there because when deer run into another hunter they will come back to you. If you walk up to deer, stamp your foot at them since they do not see good and you should be a deer. The foot stamp is a recognition signal and not a danger thing. If you kneel down and stamp your hand, they will come to you. I have been in the center of 17 deer and can walk around or shoot one. Act like a deer and do the head bob and foot stamp, then eat good.
One more thing is do not wear dark camo. You want to look like the sky to deer, even in a tree stand. Snow camo is better even with leaves. Blaze orange is the very best because they can't see it.
Certain noise does not bother them at all so a broken branch is OK. High frequencies do bother them. You can be in a tree breaking branches to set a stand and deer will pay no attention but a bow with a high frequency can mean a miss. No arrow is fast enough to beat a deer. Everything I know about deer was taught to me by the deer. The worst thing to do when a deer spots your movement is to freeze up. You have been busted so just act like a deer. stamp your foot and move like the deer does. Thank me when your freezer is full. They are easy and me and my little dog have been 10' away to toss apples to them. Deer and fox get along fine too. They will actually play together. But deer hate skunk stink like nothing else.

 

[wcubed]

As a brand new shooter to the flintlock, I can say I had no idea what to expect when I fired mine for the first time. I never noticed the flash in the pan, and the idea of it does not concern me. I'm wearing eye protection. That's all that matters.

Last night, I showed a high resolution photo of me firing it to a neighbor. The first thing he said was "There's fire right next to your face!". I just laughed.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Again, WAY off topic. Used "I" 10 times in just the first 2 paragraphs of another long and un-related fantasy.

Wait for it,
Click on name, select "IGNORE"
Done.

 

[Gene L]

Speaking from limited personal experience, it was the slight ignition delay that got me. I had to school myself to stay on the barrel until the ignition. So I'm not sure we're putting things in the shooter's mind because the flash is something to deal with. It shouldn't affect follow through, but some can let it, I guess. For me, it was the slight delay that gave me time to get off the stock; I hardly noticed the flash once I conquered the delay.