Armi Jager Zouave rate of twist

[CyrusP]

I picked up another Zouave Repro this weekend at Dixon’s. This one is a 1974 vintage Armi Jager (first one is Antonio Zoli) My rough measure of a tight fitting patch on a ball bearing swivel cleaning rod showed a half turn in 16” so 1in 33” twist. Does this sound feasible from your experience or did I mess this up.

Thanks.

 

[Columbus]

Did you happen to measure the bore?

 

[bang]

I picked up another Zouave Repro this weekend at Dixon’s. This one is a 1974 vintage Armi Jager (first one is Antonio Zoli) My rough measure of a tight fitting patch on a ball bearing swivel cleaning rod showed a half turn in 16” so 1in 33” twist. Does this sound feasible from your experience or did I mess this up.

Thanks.

Seems rather fast unless it was made that way for a specific reason.

 

[SDSmlf]

I picked up another Zouave Repro this weekend at Dixon’s. This one is a 1974 vintage Armi Jager (first one is Antonio Zoli) My rough measure of a tight fitting patch on a ball bearing swivel cleaning rod showed a half turn in 16” so 1in 33” twist. Does this sound feasible from your experience or did I mess this up.

Thanks.

32” barrel? One turn per barrel length? Have read that was fairly common back in the day.

 

[dave951]

Sounds fast. Try it a couple times and see if it repeats.

 

[CyrusP]

I’ll measure the bore with my calipers for a ballpark and report back. I did try a few times with the same result. Thanks.

 

[Jim]

I have the very same rifle . . . .GREAT SHOOTER!

 

[springfield art]

I've had 3 Zouaves over the years, the quality seemed to vary; sometimes the wood would be loosey-goosey, but now I've got a real tight one, but haven't shot much. I envy the guys who buckle down and make tight, carefully studied groups; I haven't the patience!

 

[CyrusP]

I have the very same rifle . . . .GREAT SHOOTER!

Hi Jim. Any thoughts on twist rate? What are you using for a load? I shot it over the weekend with a 575213 Minie sized at .575 over 60 grains FFG. I was all over the place but the Grand Canyon rear sight notch did ZERO for accuracy. I’m going to fudge together a rear site notch for now to see how accurate this is. Maybe JB Weld.

 

[Jim]

Dunno’ what twist rate is, but the gov’t load of 60 grs. 2F shoots good in this rifle . . . .
Been quite a few years since I shot it, but I aim to again, soon.
Luck with yours, —Jim

 

[CyrusP]

I suspect once I get that cavernous rear sight tightened up this will be the shooter I think it is. I can’t abide by a sloppy sight picture.

 

[dave951]

Hi Jim. Any thoughts on twist rate? What are you using for a load? I shot it over the weekend with a 575213 Minie sized at .575 over 60 grains FFG. I was all over the place but the Grand Canyon rear sight notch did ZERO for accuracy. I’m going to fudge together a rear site notch for now to see how accurate this is. Maybe JB Weld.

Are you dead SURE of the bore size and no, calipers aren't accurate enough. You need plug gauges to be certain. Next, cut the charge to about 45-50g. What lube are you using and how are you applying it. Finally, not all guns shoot the same bullet with the same result.

 

[CyrusP]

Thanks! I need plug gauges for certain. Been meaning to buy a set for years. I’m using Bore Butter for now just because I have a tube but I will be making my own ASAP. I apply by finger to the grooves. I’ll get this worked out.

 

[JackP]

I have one with the tight twist. It was rusted so bad in bore when I got it couldn't be cleaned. Thanks to Bobby Hoyt it's now a 20 ga. smothie. Of coarse it was used when I got it.

 

[59sharps]

Hi Jim. Any thoughts on twist rate? What are you using for a load? I shot it over the weekend with a 575213 Minie sized at .575 over 60 grains FFG. I was all over the place but the Grand Canyon rear sight notch did ZERO for accuracy. I’m going to fudge together a rear site notch for now to see how accurate this is. Maybe JB Weld.

Try 42 of 3fffg. Worked in the one i had and also my friends. Also mini needs to be .001-002 under bore. Pure lead only. To size bore if you do not have pin gage, tap a over sized mini in just past the grease groove so you can get pliers on it, twist it 1/4 turn do that w 3 minis measure and that is your bore size.

 

[CyrusP]

Thanks for this! Will try it ASAP.

 

[dave951]

What are you using for a load? I shot it over the weekend with a 575213 Minie sized at .575 over 60 grains FFG. I was all over the place but the Grand Canyon rear sight notch did ZERO for accuracy.

A couple further comments- on the rear sights, get this-

https://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=58S147&cat=87
Use in place of the awful issue sights. Don't forget to raise the front post as well.

Get an assortment of bullets to try from the only source I trust on the internet- here-

https://www.lodgewood.com/Bullets_c_7.html
Use only RWS or Scheutzen caps. CCI current production are manure for accurate shooting. They're designed for blanks and reenactors.

Ditch the Bore Butter. You can get Crisco or better yet, Lard at your local grocer.

Don't get hung up on the "60g" 2f service charge. Current production powder is not the same as back then. As for powder, I'm a big fan of Swiss but Scheutzen is also good. Try both 2 and 3f in moderate charges. We've found the the North South Skirmish Association that, in general, a moderate charge of 3f leads to best accuracy and less fouling. It also uses less powder meaning that pound gives more shots.

UToob is a HORRIBLE place to get advice on a gun designed to shoot minies unless you're very, very careful on who your taking advice from, but in that case, you probably already know how to shoot a minie accurately.

Here's a couple shots of my initial work up of the Zouaves we use in youth instruction-

Zoli Zouave, 10 shots

Korean Zouave

 

[CyrusP]

This is excellent! I’m ordering the blank site blade from S&S as we speak. I removed the rear site assembly last night. On the Armi Jager it’s a bizarre dovetail arrangement as opposed to the Zoli (and original?) 2 post screw on type. I say bizarre because the sight is concave bottom so is “turned into” the dovetail (if that makes sense)

Great info everyone! Keep it coming! Thanks!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

SOLID info there by Dave 951!

Guys I know who shoot in the No-So Skirmish Nationals take their load development to the next level! Meaning, they'll use the plug gauges to check the bore size 1st. then size their pure lead Minies to be 0.002" under that, and will use 3Fg charges for the same advantages that Dave mentioned. Then they'll work up in 5-grain increments and then once they find the 'range' it likes, they'll work smaller increments around that setting to get THE best/tightest groups.

They helped me do this with my Zoli Zouave (barrel twist is a sloooooow 1 turn in 72"!) ... the lone 'cap gun' in stable of flintlocks and matchlocks shooting roundball ... and she'll now shoot one ragged hole 5-shot groups @ 50-yards benched.

Good men they are, those No-So Skirmish gents!

 

[hanshi]

I had a Zouave for several years and shot/hunted with it a good bit. This was about 55 years ago so I can't recall much about it. The stock wasn't walnut, though. I shot a patched .562" ball and minies and was satisfied with the accuracy. I eventually traded it for something or other?? My US M1841 is a much better rifle with its finely fitted walnut stock and .54 caliber. The twist on it is - I've been lead to understand - is 1-66" or thereabout. It's very, very accurate as well.